Stud Mounting for PVC Dimensional Signage

[Think713]

Hey guys,
So we have a project coming up that is going to consist of several PVC Letters that need to be direct printed. So we are going to do that, but they are also going to be stud mounted on that back and require a template for install.
I've not setup anything for stud mounting yet, so how does this work as far as registration goes when doing this? We will likely be using 1/2" 4'x8' sheets of printable pvc.

I immediately am thinking (and tell me if im wrong) that each sheet is printed with said design, and then flipped to print a mirrored layout with the stud locations. The stud locations get routed first, then the boards flipped back over and then the letters routed from there....is that right?

Whats the pro suggestion from yall for this?

 

[unclebun]

If it's a one-off job and you don't make stud mounted letters on a regular basis, you could do what Gemini did until just the last couple of years. Plot the outlines of the words on pattern paper. Mount short studs on the letters. With the pattern on a slightly resilient surface, hold each letter exactly over its outline on the pattern, then press down, denting the paper with the studs. Draw a cross on each location.

 

[Think713]

If it's a one-off job and you don't make stud mounted letters on a regular basis, you could do what Gemini did until just the last couple of years. Plot the outlines of the words on pattern paper. Mount short studs on the letters. With the pattern on a slightly resilient surface, hold each letter exactly over its outline on the pattern, then press down, denting the paper with the studs. Draw a cross on each location.

Thats definitely an option. In a pinch I think that would be a good fix, but I have a feeling based on the way my boss is talking is that this is something he's going to want more consistently in production.

 

[unclebun]

Thats definitely an option. In a pinch I think that would be a good fix, but I have a feeling based on the way my boss is talking is that this is something he's going to want more consistently in production.

It was the industry standard for more than 50 years.

 

[Think713]

It was the industry standard for more than 50 years.

I'm not here to debate that. I just know there is a way to do this because gemini and other companies produce this type of lettering with templates that go with them. So I want/need to know how that is done. I worked for a company in SC almost 8 years ago that got templates from gemini with direct markings on them that were clearly printed into the template and not just "depressed" from matching them to placement.

 

[Signstein]

Couldn't you use your same router file with stud mounts to plot yourself an install template? Then the stud locations would line up perfectly with your actual letters. Or are you wanting the 4x8 sheet to serve as the template?

 

[Think713]

Couldn't you use your same router file with stud mounts to plot yourself an install template? Then the stud locations would line up perfectly with your actual letters. Or are you wanting the 4x8 sheet to serve as the template?

Short answer yes. Im more asking what is the best order of operations for this. Like how do other people do it. The stud file has to be mirrored. More importantly it has to print on the PVC sheet exactly on the opposite side.
The template file im not concerned about as much as I am concerned about what the best way to create the lettering with the studs on the back is...
The 4x8 sheet cant really serve as the template for the letters because they're going to be fairly large. I think they're 40" tall letters. So I have to go through many sheets of material to get this right because the wording is extensive. Its like 20 some letters (i forget the exact count, but its not just a few like (4-5) for one word.)

 

[JBurton]

Route letters upside down, drill into but not through sheet for stud locations. Print letter outline on something sacrificial on flatbed, place letters face up, then print.
You could also go the other direction. Print letters, route letters, pen letter shapes on table, place letters on outlines, drill holes for stud locations.
Otherwise, you could print the letters and registration dots, then set up the first route file to drill through the registration dots, cover in black vinyl, flip panel, drill stud locations based off drilled out registration dots, then route letters.
Flipping a printed sheet without using registration dots is just asking for trouble, thought at 40" tall it may work out fine with a bleed for the inevitable poor registration.

 

[Signstein]

Why do the stud mounts have to be printed perfectly on the backs of each letter? Wouldn't the router handle both operations in succession: drill stud mounts, then cut out letters?
I would print the letters first - including bleed and registration. Then flip it face down onto the CNC and register it. Then run your file.

 

[JBurton]

Why do the stud mounts have to be printed perfectly on the backs of each letter? Wouldn't the router handle both operations in succession: drill stud mounts, then cut out letters?
I would print the letters first - including bleed and registration. Then flip it face down onto the CNC and register it. Then run your file.

Yeah, but he wants to print on the face side, drill on the back side. So in order to get the registration from the front to the back, you gotta drill the holes through the marks. (This is assuming we are talking about a CNC with camera like a colex).
My experiences with cutting one side of a sheet, then flipping to the other side for more machining, have given inconsistent results. (Mostly due to user error or oddball sheet sizes not being accounted for)

 

[Think713]

Route letters upside down, drill into but not through sheet for stud locations. Print letter outline on something sacrificial on flatbed, place letters face up, then print.
You could also go the other direction. Print letters, route letters, pen letter shapes on table, place letters on outlines, drill holes for stud locations.
Otherwise, you could print the letters and registration dots, then set up the first route file to drill through the registration dots, cover in black vinyl, flip panel, drill stud locations based off drilled out registration dots, then route letters.
Flipping a printed sheet without using registration dots is just asking for trouble, thought at 40" tall it may work out fine with a bleed for the inevitable poor registration.

Well couldn't I just print registration on both sides? I just have to make sure that the registrations fall in the same spot on both sides. I would load the printer the same way twice, and as long as the substrate dimensions are correct, there shouldn't be any variance in that. I think so anyway....

Why do the stud mounts have to be printed perfectly on the backs of each letter? Wouldn't the router handle both operations in succession: drill stud mounts, then cut out letters?
I would print the letters first - including bleed and registration. Then flip it face down onto the CNC and register it. Then run your file.

thats kinda what im getting at what I think needs to be done...I'm just trying to solidfy the thought process in my mind if it would work. (I don't see why it wouldn't)
Also if the letters are solid (which im pretty sure they're going to be, I can just print one side of the a sheet a solid color, and then do all the registration/stud holes, and reverse letter cuts on one side.)

Right?

 

[Think713]

Why do the stud mounts have to be printed perfectly on the backs of each letter? Wouldn't the router handle both operations in succession: drill stud mounts, then cut out letters?
I would print the letters first - including bleed and registration. Then flip it face down onto the CNC and register it. Then run your file.

They have to match the install template. << redundant.

 

[JBurton]

I think so anyway....

Yeah, it should... as long as your sheet is cut square and true, and your fence is repeatable. And your art is in the right place on the sheet.
Only way I know to do it simply is to cut the sheet down to 'known' dimensions, say a 48x96 turned into a 47.75x95.75, and place the art dead center of that rectangle.
At any rate, does your CNC have a camera setup?

Also if the letters are solid (which im pretty sure they're going to be, I can just print one side of the a sheet a solid color, and then do all the registration/stud holes, and reverse letter cuts on one side.)

Oh well yeah, flood the sheet, cut it upside down, include stud markings, easy money. Why didn't I read that they were solid colored first, that makes it all so simple!

 

[Think713]

Yeah, it should... as long as your sheet is cut square and true, and your fence is repeatable. And your art is in the right place on the sheet.
Only way I know to do it simply is to cut the sheet down to 'known' dimensions, say a 48x96 turned into a 47.75x95.75, and place the art dead center of that rectangle.
At any rate, does your CNC have a camera setup?

Oh well yeah, flood the sheet, cut it upside down, include stud markings, easy money. Why didn't I read that they were solid colored first, that makes it all so simple!

It does, I am on a colex like you mentioned. And as far as the solid color, I just thought of that through this convo, so we're thinking together haha.

I appreciate you guys a lot.