Substance vinyl issues

[JBurton]

I haven't used much of this stuff, so I'm hoping others have. Previously I printed on a 60" roll of Icon pm-3755 (just a note, I hate their naming conventions, and their website makes my head hurt) with no issues. I have a customer who was wanting industrial labels, with thick laminate, for sticking to powder coat, minimal prep & install. So I bought some ultracurve x2 and icon 440lse to see how they would work for this customer, both in 30" rolls.
I have not had great success getting a uniform ink on them across the width of the roll. I swapped out printheads, dropped from 20passes to 10p to 6p, increased interpass delay, precleaned the area with alcohol, and I've basically always had the same result on the left hand side of the roll. At this point I'm thinking it may just be that this roll was converted from a larger roll, and therefore the cut edge has debris or something interfering with the ink, or the hp 560 doesn't like to heat the whole chamber, and I have a weak cure temp on that side.
Here's a picture, the black on the left two prints is far grainier than the rest, I promise...

 

[Johnny Best]

What do you want all of us to do? Have you tried AI to help.

 

[JBurton]

What do you want all of us to do? Have you tried AI to help.

As with everything, all I've been doing is throwing my arkansas intelligence at it! No luck thus far.
Mostly wanting to see if others either running these materials have this issue, or others running 30" material on a hp have this issue. I've never printed on a 30" roll, so beats me if that's an angle to come at it from.

 

[Signstein]

Do you have a takeup unit? Don't know if this would work, but could you steal a core holder from the takeup and test your uneven temp theory?
Maybe you could shift the material to the other side to see if it helped?

Not exactly like this, but you get the idea...

 

[BigNate]

I just finished a 30" roll and upped the size to 60" for the next roll.... no issues at all printing. (oddly enough I duplicated the profile I created for one of the BriteLine medias.... I don't recall having to change anything when making the profile for the 440LSE...)

We are running an HP 700W

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I'll withhold my disdain for the HP printers here. Never had an issue with 444lse in 30 or 54 and we've ran a fair amount of it using a canned PVC profile. They have icc profiles on their site but don't know how the HP mystery machines work. If nothing else,call them. Their customer service is top notch.

 

[cmoist]

I'm running Epson, but use a ton of the 2755 in both 25.5" (sliced down) and 54". Most of the 54" is printed full width with no color variation from side to side. I've printed small amounts of 30" wide ultracurve and 440 without issue as well. That may not be overly helpful, save for the fast that I don't think there is anything wrong with the product. I have had minor issues with static before, but that seemed to be across all similar vinyl.

I do use the Substance provided profile for the Epson.

 

[JBurton]

I forgot to mention, I pulled profiles from substance, I'll try my old goto profile, ij35c, and see how that looks.

Do you have a takeup unit? Don't know if this would work, but could you steal a core holder from the takeup and test your uneven temp theory?
Maybe you could shift the material to the other side to see if it helped?

Not exactly like this, but you get the idea...

View attachment 169901

I see what your saying, unfortunately I have 'spindless' takeup, so it just sandwiches either end of the cores. I think the only way to prove this theory is getting a larger roll, or unwinding/rewinding this roll backwards, though I'll mess with other profiles first.

If nothing else,call them. Their customer service is top notch.

Yeah, I probably should have before hopping on here, but it's good to know several have had zero issues with 30" rolls, or latex adhesion.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Have you considered static electricity? The "graininess" in your picture looks kind of organic. If it was a printhead problem, it would be regular, right?

I'm guessing that no matter how you rotate the file, that that section of the media always seems to be weird?

Any chance there could be some static buildup on the media? Or that the process of unrolling it is causing some static?

 

[BigNate]

One minor trick that may help is to print the color strips on the outer edges of your prints - this forces all the heads to fire right before the they fire for the image. This seems to help keep all the nozzles firing more consistently....

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I haven't had any issues. Send them a message. If they think it's a bad roll, they'll send you a new one. Was it gloss or matte?

 

[JBurton]

Was it gloss or matte?

matte on both.

color strips on the outer edges of your prints

Have you considered static electricity?

I've not tried gutters just yet, I thought those were more helpful with the sparse solid colors, which was suggested as a remedy to static.

Send them a message.

Too late, someone taddled on me, they reached out already! I'm dumbfounded, or pleasantly surprised rather. I'll be following up with them in the afternoon tomorrow and will let y'all know what's up.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

matte on both.


I've not tried gutters just yet, I thought those were more helpful with the sparse solid colors, which was suggested as a remedy to static.


Too late, someone taddled on me, they reached out already! I'm dumbfounded, or pleasantly surprised rather. I'll be following up with them in the afternoon tomorrow and will let y'all know what's up.

Their support and the way they stand behind their product is amazing!! I can't wait until their line exands!!

 

[FCD]

We run 30” rolls of substance x1 everyday and have for years with no issues on our hp115. We currently run all of our stuff on a 3M profile on their media and have great results.

I’m thinking it’s something printer related with the heat curing temp. That would be my first guess. Other than that, the roll could be bad or have something on it. I’ve gotten one bad roll from them before, but they have great customer service and it’s only been 1 roll out of many.

 

[balstestrat]

It's easy to test if it's bad media or printer. Roll 10 feet on a new core and now you have swapped left and right side.
If it's now on the other side it's media, if not it's printer.

I too recommend to try spit bar on that side.

 

[JBurton]

matte on both.


I've not tried gutters just yet, I thought those were more helpful with the sparse solid colors, which was suggested as a remedy to static.


Too late, someone taddled on me, they reached out already! I'm dumbfounded, or pleasantly surprised rather. I'll be following up with them in the afternoon tomorrow and will let y'all know what's up.

I'm the worst, I'm just now following up.
Matt at Substance reached out, sent me some test rolls, and helped me select a better and cheaper product for my application. Additionally, I found that all of my sample printing in the original post was being done on a roll of laminate that I'd confused for print media. It boiled down to mistaking Ultracurve 1000 (overlaminate) and Ultracurve X2 (print media), and since I never got a print I wanted to laminate or plot, I just kept it on the take up reel and kept trying different settings.
The recommended products for my application were 444LSE paired with TL-6100 laminate, and the customer loved the ease of application (thickness and air egress), finish (both from the semi gloss nature of the textured laminate and the rigidity that kept the 'orange peel' type finish on the powder coat from showing through), and aggressive adhesive.