Teething issues - Summa S Class and SAI Flexi

[Haakon]

So a few days ago I got my secondhand S75D up and running, replacing my Roland GX24. I use SAI Flexistarter 8.6v2 as setup/cutting software. I've used this for the last 5 years or so (flexistarter on GX24). I'm pretty familiar with it and how the settings in the setup preferences work on the Roland.

After changing to the Summa (setup was pretty easy, disconnect GX24 from USB, connect Summa to USB and add the cutter/set up connection in production manager), it worked perfectly for the first job, but some issues afterwards.. I do not know if its Summa or Flexi related, so I'll just try to explain as good as I can.

1. First job it worked perfectly. When hitting the Poll Size button in production manager the work area adjusted to actual size and the file cut just fine. But after changing rolls and trying to poll size again, the production manager program crashes immediately after hitting the poll size button. If I don't hit it and just press send the file goes through and it starts cutting as it is supposed to. I don't know if this is a Hardware or Software issue, but it has never happened before the hardware (cutter) was changed.

2. I tried to cut a graphic for a mailbox, with smallish letters in a handwritten font. Even though the cutter was set at 500mm/second speed, it cut the letters very very slowly, but raced when moving between letters and lines. I tried with some regular text afterwards (Arial) and it cut it very quickly, like the 500mm speed setting would suggest. I made a video clip of it (the slow cutting) and will update this this post when it's processed at youtube.

Now, is is the software or cutter itself that controls the speed, cutting order etc? I've always wondered about this. Does the cutter receive the file as one whole set of data and decide itself where to start and finish, or does the program override this?

I do have a copy of Flexistarter 10.5 as well - it is brand new and uninstalled. But some bugs in either the uninstall wizard or the program itself (SAI production suite) won't let me uninstall it, it just comes up with "error 6003" and shuts down the uninstall process.

So what I want to achieve is this:
1. Make is so everything works smoothly, and that nothing crashes when asking for work area dimensions from the cutter.
2. Make it work at normal speed, not 50mm/sec when cutting and 500mm/sec when moving between cuts.

Video was uploaded while making this post (youtube flipped it vertically, so it may look like that while the video editor flips it the right way again

[video=youtube;UTIMdFiFCZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTIMdFiFCZI[/video]

 

[visual800]

Sometimes the settings on the plotter itself are better than trying to contol them in production manager or software. I had to slow my summa down there is no sense in a plotter moving that fast

 

[AF]

A couple of ideas for you:

1) Update the cutter to the latest firmware.
2) Update your drivers to the latest version.
3) Adjust the acceleration in the service menu on the device (contact Summa support)
4) Turn off simulated tangential
5) Cut a file with less complex letters to debug the speed. Understand the knife speed on a straight line is 500mm/s but with a zillion segments it will run slower as it slows and accelerates to cut each tiny segment.
6) Change the plotter language in the software package.

Good luck.

 

[Haakon]

I've done some more testing now, and on less complex fonts it's way quicker, pretty much the same speed as on the selftest on the machine (confinence test as it says on the display). I was just surprised that the Summa would use 2 and a half minute on what the GX-24 would cut in about 45 seconds, when the Roland is set at 40cm/sec and the Summa at 50cm/sec (max speed for roland, half of max for Summa).

I guess the fact that it was the first block of text I've cut on it made it more surprising than if the first 10 jobs were cut at a normal pace

I looked into the firmware on the Summa website, but it stated that you shouldn't mess with it if it wasn't broken. So I didn't.
The drivers are the current ones, downloaded from Summa a few days ago


For now I can live without using the poll size function by manually inputting the approx size. All my rolls are 24" anyway. But it would be nice to get it working properly. If there is one piece of hardware or software in my posession that mess up more that others it's the flexi software.. Probably the guilty part this time as well.

 

[Jburns]

Yes,
flexi will push settings to the cutter. On my graphtec, and probably on the summa, there is an option to use only cutter settings, or program settings. I made this change at the cutter menu- it will take the job, but not speed, pressure etc. from flexi.
i use only cutter settings- flexi settings are too fast, and limited.
i have flexi 8.1

 

[FrankW]

You can choose in the driver option wether Flexi should send speed commands or not, by simply unchecking the box of the speed command. Other possibility is to set the cutter to ignore tool commands in the communication settings, but this could lead to other problems depending on the application.

Fonts with complex shapes could take more time than simple fonts. An other possibility is that a setting in the "Speed Detail"-Window makes the problem: there can be different speed settings for knife up and knife down.

 

[SightLine]

1) The poll size issue is a bug in Flexi that is fixed in the current Cloud version. It can be fixed in other versions though. They come up with the fix for the issue while remoted into our Production Manager. The tech fixed it on the version we were running at the time (I think it was 8.6v2). I know I worked with Radisa from SAi on this but I forget who the developer was who remoted in and fixed it was. No driver update or anything else will fix that, I tried everything and made enough noise about that that they fixed it. Polling for the material size = instant crash of Production Manager. That really blows when your printer is 20 feet into a 22 foot print on 3M 680 reflective and someone polls the cutter....

2) Download the Summa Cutter Tools from Summa. https://www.summausa.com/support/?tab=2#S2andSClassDSeries Also go ahead and download the most current firmware. The Summa Cutter Control program allows you to configure multiple "users" for the cutter with settings for each. You can configure 8 setups. Easiest to configure everything from the Summa software (that same program is also used to update the firmware). We have users setup called
Cast
Calendered
Laminated Cast
Laminated Calendered
Reflective
Laminated Reflective
Heat Transfer
etc.....

Each one has speed and pressure settings customized to the type of material.

You can also tap on the home screen to quickly access certain functions.... for example you can tap directly on "Knife Pressure" and change the pressure instead of going through the menus. Same with "user" and the top left corner - tap there to set the origin.

We do not use Flexi to send parameters or settings to the cutter. We send cut jobs to "Hold in List" then we set the material up on the cutter, set the user, then send the cut job from Production Manager.


These cutter shave multiple speeds / velocity settings which can be customized for each "user / material". Not just cut speed but also movement speeds like advancing the material or moving between parts to cut are things you can adjust. Some of the material movement speeds you might want to slow down for particularly heavy materials to help assure nothing slips at all jerking all that weight back and forth. Also has a setting for constant/variable velocity on long vectors. If you turn "Quality Tuning" on - when you load a roll it advances a bit of material and then jerks around some and shakes like a mad dog. lol.... its determining the weight of the material on roll it has to drag the material off of and optimizes certain settings for the material loaded.

Your might not have the same options as ours though. Ours is an S Class T model which has particular settings related to the tangential cutting head.