Transparent .png and .tiff printing faded background.

[DesireeM]

I'm trying to print an .eps file that was designed in Illustrator and I'm having an issue with a placed, transparent .png in the layout.
In the photo you can see that it's printing a box around the .png(a maple leaf with a white outline) that causes the layer beneath it to be faded.

I've checked and there is definitely no background on the .png. I looked on here and online and people have discussed this issue but I couldn't find a solution.
The only thing I could find was that Versaworks does not properly render .png transparency because .png's are more for web purposes than digital printing.

So I used Photoshop to convert the .png to a transparent .tiff and placed that in the .eps file instead of the .png but I had the same issue when I printed it. I find it weird that I've never had this issue before but maybe I've just been lucky. I'm hoping it's a setting in the .eps file or a setting in Versaworks that was changed without me realizing it.

fyi:
There are no spot colors used in the .eps layout.

 

[jfiscus]

Is it a spot colors with transparency issue? Are there ANY spot colors in your document (including registration and CutContour)?
If not, I would put a clipping mask on the artwork of flatten it with the matching black background Photoshop and drop it back in without transparency.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Set the rendering intents for Vector and Bitmap to the same setting and that should get rid of the box. I'm not sure where that is in Versaworks but maybe someone who uses that software more can guide you in the right direction.

 

[Andriy]

I might've misread it but why would you not just use the Illustrator EPS and are making it a PNG->TIFF->EPS?

 

[DesireeM]

Is it a spot colors with transparency issue? Are there ANY spot colors in your document (including registration and CutContour)?
If not, I would put a clipping mask on the artwork of flatten it with the matching black background Photoshop and drop it back in without transparency.

No spot colors like I said in my post.

I know I can just rasterize the whole thing or edit the .png to have the same color background as what it's being placed on.
The issue is that these are jobs we do for a customer that sells advertising space. So their customers rent the space and we make the signs -there's a very low, set price for these types of signs as part of an agreement with the ad space seller. Their customers get minimal design time - it's like 1hr of my time complementary(including setup). It's not even part of the price it's just a "freebie" if they want a quick cheap design. (They have the option to pay more for design if they want more in-depth design service) so to spend extra time on something like this is just spending time no one paid for...

It's really not a huge deal as a one-time thing but what I'm trying to find is a solution to the problem, not a work-around, so that in the future I don't have to waste time with work arounds.

 

[DesireeM]

Set the rendering intents for Vector and Bitmap to the same setting and that should get rid of the box. I'm not sure where that is in Versaworks but maybe someone who uses that software more can guide you in the right direction.

I could not find such a setting in VersaWorks.

 

[boxerbay]

this is one of the worlds eight wonders. no one has been able to say exactly what causes this.

take your scaled up to final print size file EPS and open it in photoshop then save it as a TIFF. use the TIFF to print.

 

[DesireeM]

I might've misread it but why would you not just use the Illustrator EPS and are making it a PNG->TIFF->EPS?

To clarify - I am loading an .eps file into VersaWorks.

that .eps file has within it: a transparent .png (now.tiff) object that is layered on top of a black background. along with some vector logos and text.

 

[Andriy]

To clarify - I am loading an .eps file into VersaWorks.

that .eps file has within it: a transparent .png (now.tiff) object that is layered on top of a black background. along with some vector logos and text.

Got it!
Have you attempted to do a quick live trace on the PNG? That way you can stay within the vector realm for consistency and easy manipulation.

 

[DesireeM]

this is one of the worlds eight wonders. no one has been able to say exactly what causes this.

take your scaled up to final print size file EPS and open it in photoshop then save it as a TIFF. use the TIFF to print.

Again, yes I appreciate the work-arounds. I'll probably resort to this if I can't get a starighforward solution....I\d really rather figure out why this is happening.

I've used transparent .tiff's a million times in a mixed vector/raster .eps file. that is why this is bothering me.
I know I can work around it BUT I am not the type of person who can accept defeat...and yes, I consider it a defeat to resort to "flattening all".

Spend the time figuring it out now in order to save myself the headache in the future....

 

[DesireeM]

Got it!
Have you attempted to do a quick live trace on the PNG? That way you can stay within the vector realm for consistency and easy manipulation.

lol Another workaround! Thank you for the suggestion it is a good option. Although the .png is very low-res so it live-traces to a wonky version of its former self.

 

[boxerbay]

trust me you will get a headache now trying to figure it out and wasting A LOT of time.

Ive heard everything like:

you have a mixed color spaces PMS + CMYK - should be the same
you have a mixed color profile RGB vs sRGB vs CMYK - should be the same
you must save it as a PDF 1xa or something. - did not work i tried every PDF format.

you will get grey hairs trying to figure it out.

basically the RIP is going to rasterize it anyways. so build your EPS at actual size then flatten it in photoshop and save as tiff. move on.

 

[DesireeM]

Soooo....it turns out my issue was, in fact, that I was mixing color spaces among the objects in my file. In my defense Illustrator lied to me! (See attached video and jpg because I swear I can't make up the glitches I get in Illy CS5 but I sure can prove they exist!)

The .png of course was an RGB file. They can't be saved as CMYK...Illustrator showed the embedded .png was cmyk and I didn't question it even though I know that's not possible... Then I used photoshop to open the .png and immediately save it as a .tiff (which then also showed in illustrator as an embedded CMYK file)

Upon further investigation the .tiff file was actually RGB (thanks Photoshop for not lying to me). So I converted it and now it prints properly with no halo effect!

I discovered another weird phenomenon though...when I was trying to print the CMYK .eps with the RGB .png - my black background (100%k) printed richer than it did once I fixed the file(attached photo but it's hard to see the diff)

And then...for science I saved my original mixed-color space file as RGB with the RGB .png and that printed with no halo as well! Although the black background and red vectors were very dull.


All this to find out something I already knew... RGB and CMYK don't mix in Versaworks(when transparency is involved).

[video]https://youtu.be/Mp_lO5FnyDA[/video]

 

[Andy_warp]

The difference in blacks, and the rendering error may have everything to do with the rip's black generation...but I'm only familiar with Onyx and Caldera.

 

[P Wagner]

I could not find such a setting in VersaWorks.

Job Settings dialog > Quality Tab > Color Management Preset listbox > Full Page Conversion Mode

 

[DesireeM]

Job Settings dialog > Quality Tab > Color Management Preset listbox > Full Page Conversion Mode

Thanks. I'll try this first if the issue ever comes up again. Much easier to just change that setting in VersaWorks vs editing the file and reloading.

 

[bob]

Set the rendering intents for Vector and Bitmap to the same setting and that should get rid of the box. I'm not sure where that is in Versaworks but maybe someone who uses that software more can guide you in the right direction.

Exactly.

Your RIP is dealing with a vector object overlaid with a bitmap object. If your rendering intents [and they are there somewhere called something] are different for each flavor of object, you'll get different renditions of what you think is the same color.

If you're going to use a transparency, use one that's native to your print and RIP software, not one that originated elsewhere. There is no standard for transparencies [and gradients as well] and everyone does them differently and interprets imports differently.