UCJV330 Pull Back Printing (Multi Layer printing)

[Goatshaver]

Been trying to experiment with layered printing and I wanted to try a print with white and clear. However it cannot print white and clear in the same pass so it has to retract the print (after printing white & 4 color) and then do the clear.

What's happening is the original print is fine then it pulls back to origin when it starts to print the vinyl gets bunched up in front of the rollers on the left hand side. (it lifts the middle sets of rollers for the pull back.) I can't seem to figure out why this is happening.

My only thought is when the print gets to a certain point there is tension on the media roll again and because it's only using the outer rollers one side my be slightly loose and the other side has tension to the roll and when it goes to advance the print it skews and gets bunched up. Not rally sure. I've tried it 3x and the same exact thing happens on the same side every time I've tried it.

Hopefully someone has done this and can lend me some tips on how to get this to work correctly.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Make sure your pinch rollers are in the proper designated areas. Sometimes on this model the pinch rollers drift a little bit every time they are adjusted and can get knocked out of position. There's supposed to be an error code for it but it doesn't always trigger. If the roller is out of position, it won't be over the grit part of the grit roller and cause issues like these.

Also, high static can also cause the vinyl to stick to the platen and cause the same thing. If you're getting shocked a lot in that room, you might need look into a humidifier or other anti-static devices. Mimaki usually includes a roll of Teflon tape with their machines that you can apply to the platen to allow the media to slide easier. Not everyone needs to use it but it can come in handy.

 

[Goatshaver]

Make sure your pinch rollers are in the proper designated areas. Sometimes on this model the pinch rollers drift a little bit every time they are adjusted and can get knocked out of position. There's supposed to be an error code for it but it doesn't always trigger. If the roller is out of position, it won't be over the grit part of the grit roller and cause issues like these.

Also, high static can also cause the vinyl to stick to the platen and cause the same thing. If you're getting shocked a lot in that room, you might need look into a humidifier or other anti-static devices. Mimaki usually includes a roll of Teflon tape with their machines that you can apply to the platen to allow the media to slide easier. Not everyone needs to use it but it can come in handy.

Rollers were in the correct spots. It was the first thing I checked. I tried it again and watched it. It printed white+4C layers, pulled back, lifted rollers and started printing. it's when it advanced the media it lifted up slightly. Unless I put a little tension on the leading edge of the media as it advanced. That kept it down, but it may be static, (shouldn't be as I'm in a basement which is fairly humid) might be that I need teflon tape or just to find a way to put a weight on the leading edge as it prints.

 

[Kemik]

I have a UCJV300, and print a lof of fine details.
I have never been able to keep the roll back in register so I don't even try unless the alignment is not super important.
Like say if you have to print white letters on top of gloss, I would do CMYK+Gloss because the gloss needs to align with the CMYK perfectly, roll back and print white text, because if the text is slightly off it wont be noticeable. Of if you need white backup, I would do the roll back with 100% coverage of gloss so there is no chance of misalignment.

 

[Goatshaver]

I have a UCJV300, and print a lof of fine details.
I have never been able to keep the roll back in register so I don't even try unless the alignment is not super important.
Like say if you have to print white letters on top of gloss, I would do CMYK+Gloss because the gloss needs to align with the CMYK perfectly, roll back and print white text, because if the text is slightly off it wont be noticeable. Of if you need white backup, I would do the roll back with 100% coverage of gloss so there is no chance of misalignment.

Mine seemed to register fine but I had to put tension on the leading edge to keep it down. I was printing on holographic so I need to put white under some spots to block out the holographic material. I'm still learning, I've only had about 6-7 full days of use with the machine so far.
This pullback eludes me and also doing really raised prints I still don't know how to do past 5 layers.

 

[Kemik]

Mine seemed to register fine but I had to put tension on the leading edge to keep it down. I was printing on holographic so I need to put white under some spots to block out the holographic material. I'm still learning, I've only had about 6-7 full days of use with the machine so far.
This pullback eludes me and also doing really raised prints I still don't know how to do past 5 layers.

I found with fine detail, the registration would be prefect on the carriage side of the printer and be off about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch on the otherside.

In the Quality tab, choose your clear layer and change the over print.

 

[Goatshaver]

I found with fine detail, the registration would be prefect on the carriage side of the printer and be off about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch on the otherside.

In the Quality tab, choose your clear layer and change the over print.
View attachment 172271

I tried something similar but when I have my layers composited, they all get the overprint passes. I tried putting 3 layers of clear over my 4 colors and it is barely raised up at all. So I'm not even sure whats happening.

I just think I'm missing something major in printing on this that I'm not even aware of because I got no training on it.

I think I'm having a hard time simply because I need to print white under the 4 color first then do the the raised printing after and I just simply don't know how to go about doing it. I get the clear part with the multiple passes to build that up. But I don't think there is any way I can get around printing this without pulling the material back into the machine to print the clear raised after the 4 color and white prints.

 

[Kemik]

I tried something similar but when I have my layers composited, they all get the overprint passes. I tried putting 3 layers of clear over my 4 colors and it is barely raised up at all. So I'm not even sure whats happening.

I just think I'm missing something major in printing on this that I'm not even aware of because I got no training on it.

I think I'm having a hard time simply because I need to print white under the 4 color first then do the the raised printing after and I just simply don't know how to go about doing it. I get the clear part with the multiple passes to build that up. But I don't think there is any way I can get around printing this without pulling the material back into the machine to print the clear raised after the 4 color and white prints.

No, there is no way to do Clear and White at the same time without pull back.
I don't think you will notice a significant raise to the clear until about 5 overprints, and the more you raise it, the cloudier it will become, especially if it is Matte UV Clear.

 

[Goatshaver]

No, there is no way to do Clear and White at the same time without pull back.

I don't think you will notice a significant raise to the clear until about 5 overprints, and the more you raise it, the cloudier it will become, especially if it is Matte UV Clear.

I know I can't do both clear and white at the same time. Tech told me to print my 5 layer files with the color build with marks. Go back and scan the mark and then reset my media with in the scan direction. Then setup my clear layers with the same scan and feed offsets as my 5 layer file. I'm close but still not hitting where it needs to be. Scan was right on but the feed way about 1/2" off on the clear.

 

[Kemik]

No, there is no way to do Clear and White at the same time without pull back.

I know I can't do both clear and white at the same time. Tech told me to print my 5 layer files with the color build with marks. Go back and scan the mark and then reset my media with in the scan direction. Then setup my clear layers with the same scan and feed offsets as my 5 layer file. I'm close but still not hitting where it needs to be. Scan was right on but the feed way about 1/2" off on the clear.

I think you would have been better off getting a flat bed if you will be printing a lot of white and clear at the same time.
Do you have any photos of what you are printing?

 

[Goatshaver]

I think you would have been better off getting a flat bed if you will be printing a lot of white and clear at the same time.
Do you have any photos of what you are printing?

I don't have the volume or room for a flatbed. I don't see myself doing a lot of this type of print when people find out it's going to be more expensive than just a regular print without having this raised up a bunch. Also this was holographic material which I needed the white for. Maybe I could've just done another layer of white on top to build it more than way I could do it without all this extra setup and work. This was a special request of only about 50 labels, but again I've only had about 2.5 weeks of using this machine or any UV machine total so I'm sure there is an easier way.

 

[White Haus]

I don't have the volume or room for a flatbed. I don't see myself doing a lot of this type of print when people find out it's going to be more expensive than just a regular print without having this raised up a bunch. Also this was holographic material which I needed the white for. Maybe I could've just done another layer of white on top to build it more than way I could do it without all this extra setup and work. This was a special request of only about 50 labels, but again I've only had about 2.5 weeks of using this machine or any UV machine total so I'm sure there is an easier way.

View attachment 172317

You printed those on your UCJV? That's a pretty impressive finish on those!

 

[Goatshaver]

You printed those on your UCJV? That's a pretty impressive finish on those!

Yes and I did them with pullback printing as well on my UCJV330. A lot of messing around and learning how to do this and finally got some good results. Just need to be able to easily repeat it if I need to do it again.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Ahh, weed stickers, we do quite a bit of that style on the UCJV300, probably a bit slower than the 330 series, but they are well liked. Most of the people in that area don't mind the extra price to compensate for the added time. We just do single pass 1200*1200DPI on white media, clear (gloss) over the color. Only time we do pullback is when doing things like 4-8 layer prints, and to get over 5 layers, we had to screw with custom profiles. Not sure how the 330 handles it, but it technically supports full 2.5D printing stock.

 

[Goatshaver]

Ahh, weed stickers, we do quite a bit of that style on the UCJV300, probably a bit slower than the 330 series, but they are well liked. Most of the people in that area don't mind the extra price to compensate for the added time. We just do single pass 1200*1200DPI on white media, clear (gloss) over the color. Only time we do pullback is when doing things like 4-8 layer prints, and to get over 5 layers, we had to screw with custom profiles. Not sure how the 330 handles it, but it technically supports full 2.5D printing stock.

Yeah, they are going nuts over raised stuff right now. lol These were 5 layers with gloss on the pullback. I can easily do 5 layers in 1 pass which is very subtle with the raised. I have yet to try the 2.5D prints on this yet.

Do you do much perforation on labels with raised prints?
Something I never thought of is the cutting can be really affected by the raised prints depending on the thickness. Totally different cutting this stuff than doing it on straight vinyl and laminate from my solvent printer.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

I run a rat-bastard setup for cutting vinyl, I use VinylMaster and a Summa T120 cutter. I do perf, and the Summa does it pretty well, even with the thicker ink. Since the blades Summa uses for their tangential cutters are pretty beefy, it does quite well. Even a drag blade should do it well enough to tear/split along the line however.

 

[Goatshaver]

I run a rat-bastard setup for cutting vinyl, I use VinylMaster and a Summa T120 cutter. I do perf, and the Summa does it pretty well, even with the thicker ink. Since the blades Summa uses for their tangential cutters are pretty beefy, it does quite well. Even a drag blade should do it well enough to tear/split along the line however.

I'm going to try to run some stuff from Cut Master to my FC9000 but it's not ideal. Can't wait for Onyx to update and support the 330 so I can move it all over to that workflow that I use for my S40600.

I say the cutting is different because vinyl and lam are all one thickness and the blade holder should just rest on the vinyl to hold it down to the cut strip right at the cut and with a small amount of blade showing, where as the raised UV prints the depth will vary along the print so have to setup the blades the opposite. Have way more blade out and use the pressure to control it all that way you can catch those raised areas instead of the blade move up due to the holder moving over the raised area. Hopefully that makes sense.

I'm definitely not used to making so many adjustments but I'm also still learning a lot about this 330.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

On some items, perforation is best done with a ruler and a rotary perforation cutter. Not bad for small quantities at least.

 

[Kemik]

I'm going to try to run some stuff from Cut Master to my FC9000 but it's not ideal. Can't wait for Onyx to update and support the 330 so I can move it all over to that workflow that I use for my S40600.

I say the cutting is different because vinyl and lam are all one thickness and the blade holder should just rest on the vinyl to hold it down to the cut strip right at the cut and with a small amount of blade showing, where as the raised UV prints the depth will vary along the print so have to setup the blades the opposite. Have way more blade out and use the pressure to control it all that way you can catch those raised areas instead of the blade move up due to the holder moving over the raised area. Hopefully that makes sense.

I'm definitely not used to making so many adjustments but I'm also still learning a lot about this 330.

I try not to bleed off the raised prints unless it's a uniform thickness all the way around the edge.
You could also try adding an extra cut line in Illustrator over the thicker spots to have the UCJV cut twice in that area.
I keep 2 different blades, one for cutting the UV Clear, and a different one for cutting UV without clear... once the UV Clear blade gets dull, I use that for my UV no Clear, and toss the oldest one..

 

[Kemik]

I don't have the volume or room for a flatbed. I don't see myself doing a lot of this type of print when people find out it's going to be more expensive than just a regular print without having this raised up a bunch. Also this was holographic material which I needed the white for. Maybe I could've just done another layer of white on top to build it more than way I could do it without all this extra setup and work. This was a special request of only about 50 labels, but again I've only had about 2.5 weeks of using this machine or any UV machine total so I'm sure there is an easier way.

These look pretty good!
You could try using the RL Layers tab to adjust the thickness of the Clear Layer, and also the position if it is printing off to one side.
How did you find the cut accuracy on the Holographic?
I have been using FineCut to fill the crops with white ink instead of red, but this just adds another layer of difficulty to the file setup and you have to manually align for cut.
I hope they add this as a feature in RL7 to make it easier.