US Tariffs, Sigh!

[Geneva Olson]

So, What'd ya think? especially now that they released the full chat convo.... It seems to me that the information was "classified".. or should be classified by default since it was an upcoming strike.


Just watched the white House press secretary say it's all a smear campaign because the reporters a registered Democrat... And that nothing in the chat was classified, because hegseth says so... so it's not a big deal.


Seems like a major screw up to me, most press will publish anything asap to get the scoop on the story, if this guy published an article that he got word an attack would be happening in 30 mins.... It coulda (would have) put a lot of soldiers lives in jeopardy, or at best put the Yemen people on alert and ruin the mission.


I think it's just as bad that the journalist stuck around and didn't point out he was in the group convo that contained such information... And only pointed it out after it was over...

It'll be interesting to see who invited Goldberg and why though. I don't see why hegseth would have Goldberg's number in his phone to even accidently invite him, something seems fishy!

Well, 1 - there was no opsec violation (no vital information about the mission was given in the texts)
2 - the mission was already completed and a success after the "leak" happened
3 - the real question is how did the journalist get into the group chat?
4 - there's a new theory out there: this was a way to flush out the more deep state marauders...and it worked. there's actually information on the answer to my 3rd question.

 

[ikarasu]

Well, 1 - there was no opsec violation (no vital information about the mission was given in the texts)
2 - the mission was already completed and a success after the "leak" happened
3 - the real question is how did the journalist get into the group chat?
4 - there's a new theory out there: this was a way to flush out the more deep state marauders...and it worked. there's actually information on the answer to my 3rd question.

1 - Isn't an attack time vital information? The leak happened before the F18s even launched... The journalist was in the group chat during this time... And had he reported when he saw this that at 12:15 F18s will be launching to attack a terrorist whos in his known location at 1:45 (an hour and a half after the text?) It'd give them plenty of time to move locations, setup anti-air defenses... etc. To me, this is the biggest blunder... and I can't see how anyone can say this information isn't classified... you don't announce attack plans (Or war plans, or whatever they want to call it) In advanced... If he wouldnt publicly release this time line, isnt it by definition classified? I've seen more military personnel say it is defaulto classified than not... And pretty much everyone saying it's not is people who are covering their own asses. But lets say it isnt classified, shouldnt it be through a channel that theres a record of, not on an app that deletes itself every 10 days? I thought pretty much everything done in the government is supposed to be recorded and public record if it's not classified.


2 - The journalist didn't release the information until after, but it was still leaked to this journalist, So it wasn't wide spread to the public, but thats not because of anything the people in charge did... thats because the journalist surprisingly didn't report on it until after. They got lucky with which journalist got invited to this chat... I'm sure a ton of others would be willing to drop the information right away to get the scoop. I still think the guy should have said "Hey guys, I dont think I was supposed to be invited to this chat... and left before anything vital happened... I know if I was accidently invited to a work chat, and stuck around hearing all the stuff I'm not supposed to hear, I'd be terminated.... even if it were the owner who accidently invited me. So this goes both ways... I do think the texts are classified, and I think the journalist should get in shit for sticking around to an obviously classified chat, And for publishing even sections of said chat. It's not like he's a whistleblower reporting on illegal stuff the government did, He legit stuck around to see classified information, and then put it in a paper... I get the snowdens of the world, but this guy didn't have a good reason to do this.

3 - This is the one I'm most interested in! Unless someone is purposely leaking information to this guy, why is his # in their phone to begin with, to accidently be invited? Maybe they have a bunch of key journalists in their phone to send press releases too... But by the way he's talking about this guy, I don't think he'd be someone they'd want to relay info too. It'll be interesting to see what findings come up with how the got in.

 

[Geneva Olson]

1 - Isn't an attack time vital information? The leak happened before the F18s even launched... The journalist was in the group chat during this time... And had he reported when he saw this that at 12:15 F18s will be launching to attack a terrorist whos in his known location at 1:45 (an hour and a half after the text?) It'd give them plenty of time to move locations, setup anti-air defenses... etc. To me, this is the biggest blunder... and I can't see how anyone can say this information isn't classified... you don't announce attack plans (Or war plans, or whatever they want to call it) In advanced... If he wouldnt publicly release this time line, isnt it by definition classified? I've seen more military personnel say it is defaulto classified than not... And pretty much everyone saying it's not is people who are covering their own asses. But lets say it isnt classified, shouldnt it be through a channel that theres a record of, not on an app that deletes itself every 10 days? I thought pretty much everything done in the government is supposed to be recorded and public record if it's not classified.


2 - The journalist didn't release the information until after, but it was still leaked to this journalist, So it wasn't wide spread to the public, but thats not because of anything the people in charge did... thats because the journalist surprisingly didn't report on it until after. They got lucky with which journalist got invited to this chat... I'm sure a ton of others would be willing to drop the information right away to get the scoop. I still think the guy should have said "Hey guys, I dont think I was supposed to be invited to this chat... and left before anything vital happened... I know if I was accidently invited to a work chat, and stuck around hearing all the stuff I'm not supposed to hear, I'd be terminated.... even if it were the owner who accidently invited me. So this goes both ways... I do think the texts are classified, and I think the journalist should get in shit for sticking around to an obviously classified chat, And for publishing even sections of said chat. It's not like he's a whistleblower reporting on illegal stuff the government did, He legit stuck around to see classified information, and then put it in a paper... I get the snowdens of the world, but this guy didn't have a good reason to do this.

3 - This is the one I'm most interested in! Unless someone is purposely leaking information to this guy, why is his # in their phone to begin with, to accidently be invited? Maybe they have a bunch of key journalists in their phone to send press releases too... But by the way he's talking about this guy, I don't think he'd be someone they'd want to relay info too. It'll be interesting to see what findings come up with how the got in.

View attachment 176671

Real Quick: reading that post, can you tell where the target is?

 

[XtremeXccessories]

Well, 1 - there was no opsec violation (no vital information about the mission was given in the texts)
2 - the mission was already completed and a success after the "leak" happened
3 - the real question is how did the journalist get into the group chat?
4 - there's a new theory out there: this was a way to flush out the more deep state marauders...and it worked. there's actually information on the answer to my 3rd question.

1. Extremely debatable. You don't think the Houthis could have scrambled and moved locations after hearing a Houthi target was said to be at their "known location"?
2. Just because they got lucky and it went as planned means this royal fu&#up is ok? What if it goes sideways next time, will that be ok as well?
3. Michael Waltz invited him.
4. Of course there's a conspiracy theory to spin this, but I'll stick with Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Not to mention the fact that they were using a self-deleting message chain, which is illegal. What else do they discuss that gets self-deleted so they can avoid the Federal Records Act?

This is truly a kakistocracy.

 

[Geneva Olson]

1. Extremely debatable. You don't think the Houthis could have scrambled and moved locations after hearing a Houthi target was said to be at their "known location"?
2. Just because they got lucky and it went as planned means this royal fu&#up is ok? What if it goes sideways next time, will that be ok as well?
3. Michael Waltz invited him.
4. Of course there's a conspiracy theory to spin this, but I'll stick with Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Not to mention the fact that they were using a self-deleting message chain, which is illegal. What else do they discuss that gets self-deleted so they can avoid the Federal Records Act?

This is truly a kakistocracy.

so how did you feel about that afghanistan withdrawal? 13 marines died?

1 - there's no "debate" on the answer to my question. They were following "opsec" protocol.
2 - They've already started an action plan to ensure this doesn't happen again.
3 - Mike Waltz has never MET him. BUT, the person Mike Waltz added as a contact person DOES know the journalist. That contact person's wife works for a lawfirm who's security clearance have recently been revoked. That person also used to work for Victoria Nueland. (She's a real peach...). This being said, There's also talk that this was actually a set up to flush those particular people out. Time will tell.

They were using an app that was pre loaded on their phones by the cia. john ratcliff testified to that one.

 

[ikarasu]

Real Quick: reading that post, can you tell where the target is?

The fact that they're talking about helping Europe and it's more bailing them out than USA.... I'd say it's easy to narrow down. But even if not, when America gets a threat that something is going to happen, but no specifics on where.... They go on high alert, don't they?

I'm sure a lot of us bases are watche'd by terrorists.... And just like USA would see more activity going on, they may have noticed jets moving in closer.... and this could have been the final piece they'd need to finalize they think they're a target instead of just more us missions going on.

I don't know why it's under question that it should be classified, even if it's not, if it's perfectly normal stuff why isn't it released to news organizations all the time?

 

[CanuckSigns]

They know they messed up, why else do you think there was a random announcement of a 25% tariff on cars made yesterday, why not just wait until the 2nd and announce it with all the others? Got to change the news cycle!

 

[Geneva Olson]

The fact that they're talking about helping Europe and it's more bailing them out than USA.... I'd say it's easy to narrow down. But even if not, when America gets a threat that something is going to happen, but no specifics on where.... They go on high alert, don't they?

I'm sure a lot of us bases are watche'd by terrorists.... And just like USA would see more activity going on, they may have noticed jets moving in closer.... and this could have been the final piece they'd need to finalize they think they're a target instead of just more us missions going on.

I don't know why it's under question that it should be classified, even if it's not, if it's perfectly normal stuff why isn't it released to news organizations all the time?

That wasn't my question. My question was: was there a location given?

The reason I ask is because that's part of OPSEC rules in the military. My son is in the Navy. When he goes on deployment, underways or patrols, we fall into opsec/persec rules (actually he doesn't tell me anything because I have a big mouth and I"m totally ok with that because it's all for the safety of the people in the mission). Same is true in this instance. They followed opsec rules.

 

[Geneva Olson]

They know they messed up, why else do you think there was a random announcement of a 25% tariff on cars made yesterday, why not just wait until the 2nd and announce it with all the others? Got to change the news cycle!

I don't think that was a random announcement. The announcement was about BMW building a plant in missouri...That's new news.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

so how did you feel about that afghanistan withdrawal? 13 marines died?

1 - there's no "debate" on the answer to my question. They were following "opsec" protocol.
2 - They've already started an action plan to ensure this doesn't happen again.
3 - Mike Waltz has never MET him. BUT, the person Mike Waltz added as a contact person DOES know the journalist. That contact person's wife works for a lawfirm who's security clearance have recently been revoked. That person also used to work for Victoria Nueland. (She's a real peach...). This being said, There's also talk that this was actually a set up to flush those particular people out. Time will tell.

They were using an app that was pre loaded on their phones by the cia. john ratcliff testified to that one.

"In February 2020, the Trump administration signed a deal with the Taliban that would ensure the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan and guarantee that “Afghan soil will not be used against the security of the United States and its allies”.
The agreement also led to the release of 5,000 Taliban detainees as part of a prisoner exchange with the US-backed Afghan government, which did not take part in the talks that led to the agreement.
Biden, who took office in January, later pushed the withdrawal deadline to the end of August.After the Taliban entered Kabul last month, US forces – still in control of the airport in the capital – commenced an evacuation operation to airlift American citizens, third-country nationals and Afghan allies out of the country.
The evacuations were marred by scenes of chaos and a suicide bombing that killed 175 people, including 13 US service members.
“When President Biden took office in January, he inherited an agreement that his predecessor had reached with the Taliban to remove all remaining US troops by May 1 of this year,” Blinken told the HFAC on Monday.
“As part of that agreement, the previous Administration pressed the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners – including some top war commanders. Meanwhile, it reduced our own force presence to 2,500 troops.”
Blinken added that Biden had no choice but to finalise the withdrawal or escalate the war and risk attacks against US forces."
Trump is the one who set that whole thing in motion. Negotiated with the Taliban without even including the Afghanistan government, then made them release 5,000 fighters and reduced our troop count to 2,500. Great negotiator.

Maybe I missed something about Mike Waltz not inviting him, but the chat log he released says that Mike Waltz invited him.

Yes, Signal was loaded onto their phones for them, but they set the messages to automatically delete after a week violating the Federal Records Act. That's not the default setting, I use Signal, you have to enable it.

 

[Geneva Olson]

"In February 2020, the Trump administration signed a deal with the Taliban that would ensure the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan and guarantee that “Afghan soil will not be used against the security of the United States and its allies”.
The agreement also led to the release of 5,000 Taliban detainees as part of a prisoner exchange with the US-backed Afghan government, which did not take part in the talks that led to the agreement.
Biden, who took office in January, later pushed the withdrawal deadline to the end of August.After the Taliban entered Kabul last month, US forces – still in control of the airport in the capital – commenced an evacuation operation to airlift American citizens, third-country nationals and Afghan allies out of the country.
The evacuations were marred by scenes of chaos and a suicide bombing that killed 175 people, including 13 US service members.
“When President Biden took office in January, he inherited an agreement that his predecessor had reached with the Taliban to remove all remaining US troops by May 1 of this year,” Blinken told the HFAC on Monday.
“As part of that agreement, the previous Administration pressed the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners – including some top war commanders. Meanwhile, it reduced our own force presence to 2,500 troops.”
Blinken added that Biden had no choice but to finalise the withdrawal or escalate the war and risk attacks against US forces."
Trump is the one who set that whole thing in motion. Negotiated with the Taliban without even including the Afghanistan government, then made them release 5,000 fighters and reduced our troop count to 2,500. Great negotiator.

Maybe I missed something about Mike Waltz not inviting him, but the chat log he released says that Mike Waltz invited him.

Yes, Signal was loaded onto their phones for them, but they set the messages to automatically delete after a week violating the Federal Records Act. That's not the default setting, I use Signal, you have to enable it.

NO ONE told biden to withdrawal the way he did. Biden did that all on his own.

 

[GAC05]

NO ONE told biden to withdrawal the way he did. Biden did that all on his own.

I don't know. The more we learn about the last administration, the more it looks like the former President may not have made any decisions.

 

[ikarasu]

That wasn't my question. My question was: was there a location given?

The reason I ask is because that's part of OPSEC rules in the military. My son is in the Navy. When he goes on deployment, underways or patrols, we fall into opsec/persec rules (actually he doesn't tell me anything because I have a big mouth and I"m totally ok with that because it's all for the safety of the people in the mission). Same is true in this instance. They followed opsec rules.

A location wasnt directly given, no. I'm not familiar with OPSEC... So I can't argue whether it violated OPSEC rules or not, a quick google search shows OPSEC is A LOT more detailed, with a lot more rules than just giving a location.... and if I'm reading the core principles correctly, it seems like this would break opsec in quite a few ways? But to play devils advocate, lets say it doesn't violate opsec. Is the head of DOD inviting a reporter, not knowing the reporter is in the group...and giving key plans about a military operation that is currently happening not something you should be worried about? Even if it wasn't a reporter and was just some random dude... it's a pretty big security breach.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...-accidentally-adding-reporter-grou-rcna198233 I know... NBC. But a few weeks ago, another DHS Staffer did the same thing - Accidently E-mailed the plans of an upcoming ICE raid to a reporter... But she admitted to her mistake and called the reporter right away and got him to agree not to publish anything. It looks like she was found out by someone else and didnt report it to her higher ups herself... but either way, she's losing her security clearance from it, and is put on leave, likely to be fired- How is this any different than what happened? Why is she being let go, but hegseth isn't even being called out or reprimanded at all?

Shit happens. Is it so hard to say "I messed up, I can identify where I messed up...and I have learned from this mistake and will make sure it never happens again, I got too comfortable and just assumed no one that shouldnt be in the group chat was in it, next time before posting sensitive information I'll spend 30 seconds and look" ?

When I first started printing, I printed 300 double sided signs, 2 up... in the wrong direction. I thought the way they set them up meant I could flip and print the second side, and it'd always be facing the right way... It wasnt. I thought for sure I was fired... but I explained It was my screw up, I assumed something I shouldn't have... I thought I was going to be fired, And my boss told me not to worry about it... Having such a big screw up, even a stupid one means I'll know what to look out for, I'll pay closer attention and make sure it doesn't happen again - He's already paid thousands for my mistake, so why fire me and pay more to replace me? Everyone makes mistakes... its owning up to them, learning from them and making sure they never happen again that makes you better at your job.


I manage about 30ish employees right now - There are quite a few screw ups... I can tell you the people who try to cover their ass, deflect blame onto others... those are the ones who never learn from their mistakes and keep making the same dumb mistakes over and over.... its never their fault, it's always something elses fault... The ones who can explain why it happened... those are usually the ones who come to me with a plan on how they're preventing it from happening again... And honestly, those are the best employees. Everyone makes mistakes... If no one gets hurt... whats the big deal?

To me... the problem isn't what happened, its the deflection of blame and playing it off like it's not a big deal. This guy has one of the highest security clearances... And made one of the stupidest screw ups (Potentially). The fact that he doesn't think he screwed up, or that its not a big deal... thats the scary part. People should be held accountable for their actions... no matter their title. You can argue the DHS staffer who was let go is lower on the food chain and not as valuable... which is sad, but is likely the case - but you shouldnt argue that what she did is wrong, but what he did isn't. The guy should be accepting responsibility, apologizing for the screw up and putting in procedures to ensure it never happens again... Thats the most important thing, you can't change what happened... but you can learn from it and prevent it in the future.

 

[GAC05]

The guy should be accepting responsibility, apologizing for the screw up and putting in procedures to ensure it never happens again... Thats the most important thing, you can't change what happened... but you can learn from it and prevent it in the future.

This

 

[ProSignTN]

Well, 1 - there was no opsec violation (no vital information about the mission was given in the texts)
2 - the mission was already completed and a success after the "leak" happened
3 - the real question is how did the journalist get into the group chat?
4 - there's a new theory out there: this was a way to flush out the more deep state marauders...and it worked. there's actually information on the answer to my 3rd question.

The leak was BEFORE the Strike. Cult much?

 

[ProSignTN]

NO ONE told biden to withdrawal the way he did. Biden did that all on his own.

The administration prior to Biden arranged the date. Go tell the enemy when we are coming. Rupert is not a patriot.

 

[ProSignTN]

And they are still eating the dogs, and the cats. and I get multiple pics of a naked first lady. Work Visa, no American woman could pose naked like she did. Yow, that's your flotus.

 

[ProSignTN]

Patriotic

 

[ProSignTN]

But i'm drinking Irish whiskey and when the tariffs will kick in soon and I'll have to switch to bourbon.

 

[ProSignTN]

And while I'm at it: you're not his type. He prefers young and tall: kinda like his own daughter. The man is sick.