US Tariffs, Sigh!

[guillermo]

I wanted to mention that I missed a lot of this tread, and I still see it is a controversy, different opinions, some good, some funny. I was away for 4 weeks.

but the point is the increase in price in the every day items we buy.

I'm hoping that if tariffs are going to raise prices on the vinyl, then perhaps other companies will start making vinyl here in the US. I know guillermo said something about oracal going up. When I looked back and the rolls of vinyl I get from oracal (651 black, white and red), they've consistently increased 10 dollars a roll over the years since 2019. So to me, that has nothing to do with tariffs.

That being said, there are plenty of petroleum companies here in Houston that make plastic. I'm sure that vinyl can be made here in the US. I haven't researched who does make vinyl in the US. But Trump has made deals to avoid tariffs if they make it over here.

We did have a rep come in selling fetergoni (sp?) from Italy. It's a little more expensive than Arlon slx. It's a cool product thought. We used a sample of it for a vintage stripe kit on an 80s conversion. But I cant see spending the extra 50 a roll just to get a similar product.

(this is me trying to stick to the subject)

Geneva

yes, I did said that, but if they make the vinyl in the US, more likely it will cost more.

What is the reason companies make products in China?
Cheap labor in China
US company pays minimum wage, how much is it in California is little more than $18/hour, and also pays business tax, health insurance, workers com insurance, and other benefits, buy law, more likely rent of facilities, driving the price for that specific product higher than been produced overseas.

I remember about 20 years ago or so, a shoe company was in I believe El Toro, Ca, they were using a glue that California banned because it was not safe, what the company did? they moved to Philippines and continued using the same glue. it was cheaper labor and left many people in that city unemployed.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I wanted to mention that I missed a lot of this tread, and I still see it is a controversy, different opinions, some good, some funny. I was away for 4 weeks.

but the point is the increase in price in the every day items we buy.

Geneva

yes, I did said that, but if they make the vinyl in the US, more likely it will cost more.

What is the reason companies make products in China?
Cheap labor in China
US company pays minimum wage, how much is it in California is little more than $18/hour, and also pays business tax, health insurance, workers com insurance, and other benefits, buy law, more likely rent of facilities, driving the price for that specific product higher than been produced overseas.

I remember about 20 years ago or so, a shoe company was in I believe El Toro, Ca, they were using a glue that California banned because it was not safe, what the company did? they moved to Philippines and continued using the same glue. it was cheaper labor and left many people in that city unemployed.

it's almost like you look for ways to fail.

we produce gasoline at a pretty cheap rate. vinyl is a petroleum based product. we produce plastic here in texas pretty cheaply.

california actually banned something because it wasn't safe? must not have been a money maker for them.

 

[ikarasu]

ok. Would you rather pay tax on what you make? or tax (tariff) on what you spend?
perhaps basic econ has been lost on you.

I would rather be taxed on my income in a tax bracket. I'm already taxed on what I spend... it's called Sales Tax. Why add a second tax?

Why would I want the rich to get a tax cut by removing income tax and the poor to make up for it via tarrifs? Lets make it even simpler.

I'm the owner of Ford motors.

I make 1,000,000 a year. US tax bracket is 37% I believe. So lets say I'm not doing any tax fuckery by keeping my money out of USA, putting it into non-taxable programs, etc... for this purpose, we'll assume It's very basic taxes. So I make 1 million a year.... and 370k of that goes to income tax.

Now trump puts on tarrifs, and abolishes taxes. So now I make 1 million a year... but I have to pay tarrifs on all this aluminum I'm importing to make my cars. Lets say the tarrifs are 25%.

I raise my vehicle prices by 25%, because I'm not going to take a loss on my sales... I have share holders who I answer to, who I legally have to increase proffits every year in every possible way I can. So I keep my 370K that would normally goto taxes.. I raise the prices of my items... You as a regular, sub-100k a year citizen gets to pay for the tarrif, while I sit back in my yacht drinking mai tais, not paying my fair share into taxes... and pushing the burden onto the consumer.

Does that seem right to you? Or fair? How do you stop it? Think Trump can tell a business they aren't allowed to increase prices due to tarrifs? Like he did to Amazon and Walmart... who have increased prices already, and warned they will be going higher due to tarrifs. Now I'm sure as a sign shop, you're going to do the same - When your aluminum price jumps up 25%, even if youre not paying income taxes...are you going to eat it? or will you raise your prices and let the consumer eat it? So we're just shuffling money, and those on the bottom of the totem pole are the ones getting screwed, while those higher up the distribution chain lets their shit flow downhill.


If he were to abolish taxes, but had the framework put in place so tarrifs didn't get passed onto regular people... then maybe, MAYBE tarrifs have a chance at being good, and I'd understand your argument. But he jumped the gun and tarrifed the world before anything was in place, so he doesn't... and even if he did, It'd likelly just be trading 1 tax for another... The US Government is 37.5 TRILLION dollars in debt. They keep raising the debt ceiling, and raising the debt ceiling.... They cant afford to collect less taxes, so unless he somehow magically makes it so Tarrifs are not a tax, and the Country thats being tarrifed is the one that pays them (Literally impossible to do...) Then he cant get rid of income tax if the money he's collecting from Tarrifs are less than they collect from income tax.

And I know, some debt isn't bad. But Americas debt is high, and if something were to shake up the economy... Say some maniac throwing tariffs on the whole world.... That debt becomes a huge problem. Even if there was a 80% chance everything goes trumps way, playing chicken with the economy isn't the smartest thing to do... not when millions of lives depend on it.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I would rather be taxed on my income in a tax bracket. I'm already taxed on what I spend... it's called Sales Tax. Why add a second tax?

Why would I want the rich to get a tax cut by removing income tax and the poor to make up for it via tarrifs? Lets make it even simpler.

I'm the owner of Ford motors.

I make 1,000,000 a year. US tax bracket is 37% I believe. So lets say I'm not doing any tax fuckery by keeping my money out of USA, putting it into non-taxable programs, etc... for this purpose, we'll assume It's very basic taxes. So I make 1 million a year.... and 370k of that goes to income tax.

Now trump puts on tarrifs, and abolishes taxes. So now I make 1 million a year... but I have to pay tarrifs on all this aluminum I'm importing to make my cars. Lets say the tarrifs are 25%.

I raise my vehicle prices by 25%, because I'm not going to take a loss on my sales... I have share holders who I answer to, who I legally have to increase proffits every year in every possible way I can. So I keep my 370K that would normally goto taxes.. I raise the prices of my items... You as a regular, sub-100k a year citizen gets to pay for the tarrif, while I sit back in my yacht drinking mai tais, not paying my fair share into taxes... and pushing the burden onto the consumer.

Does that seem right to you? Or fair? How do you stop it? Think Trump can tell a business they aren't allowed to increase prices due to tarrifs? Like he did to Amazon and Walmart... who have increased prices already, and warned they will be going higher due to tarrifs. Now I'm sure as a sign shop, you're going to do the same - When your aluminum price jumps up 25%, even if youre not paying income taxes...are you going to eat it? or will you raise your prices and let the consumer eat it? So we're just shuffling money, and those on the bottom of the totem pole are the ones getting screwed, while those higher up the distribution chain lets their shit flow downhill.


If he were to abolish taxes, but had the framework put in place so tarrifs didn't get passed onto regular people... then maybe, MAYBE tarrifs have a chance at being good, and I'd understand your argument. But he jumped the gun and tarrifed the world before anything was in place, so he doesn't... and even if he did, It'd likelly just be trading 1 tax for another... The US Government is 37.5 TRILLION dollars in debt. They keep raising the debt ceiling, and raising the debt ceiling.... They cant afford to collect less taxes, so unless he somehow magically makes it so Tarrifs are not a tax, and the Country thats being tarrifed is the one that pays them (Literally impossible to do...) Then he cant get rid of income tax if the money he's collecting from Tarrifs are less than they collect from income tax.

And I know, some debt isn't bad. But Americas debt is high, and if something were to shake up the economy... Say some maniac throwing tariffs on the whole world.... That debt becomes a huge problem. Even if there was a 80% chance everything goes trumps way, playing chicken with the economy isn't the smartest thing to do... not when millions of lives depend on it.

sales tax is for local city and state for the local governments to run.
last i checked you don't pay federal sales tax.
it looks like we here in the us produce aluminum as well. sure, its a far cry from what we used to produce, but there's nothing wrong in increasing production. If i'm buying aluminum from my wholesaler, i'm going to make sure I'm buying it from a us company and not canada. especially if it's cheaper. which, considering the tariffs we have on canada are 50%, i'll be getting it here. oh wow. that looks like my supplier is going to have to start buying more aluminum from american made factories. because whos going to buy canadian aluminum with a 50% tariff increase when we can get it cheaper from the US.


i don't know if ive ever seen people argue in favor of being over taxed as much as you have.
that whole taxation without representation thing is very real. but go ahead, keep paying "the man"

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

This country has allowed me to be successful and make a good amount of $. Our stock market does well and allowed me to grow that money without my labor. Lot of us here are business owners and have the ability to grow as much as we are capable of. I pay 30 something percent in taxes...that's the cost of doing business. Things are expensive here and it sucks to be poor... But you get out what you put in. Want the safety and benefits of being an employee with regular salary and work? Then you settle for mediocre pay and probably won't be wealthy. Want to grind it out starting a business working 80 hours a week for years before it starts to pay off? You got a chance of making good money. Are you disciplined enough to save $ and take risk by investing? That's another way to wealth... But if you don't do those things then accept the mediocre pay and struggle when prices inflated.

The tax rate is what it is. Trump won't be president in 3 years and things move on. Enjoy the weekend