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US Tariffs, Sigh!

TarrifBoy123

New Member
So let me ask you, who implemented the tarrifs Trump's been tweeting about? Was it him signing executive orders... Or was it USTR? Can you show me where USTR implemented them?

Section 301 hilights the process and what needs to be done in order for the tarrifs to be implemented.... Can you show me where even 1 of those steps were done?

It's like a judge walking out of his court room and slapping handcuffs on someone and ordering them to jail. The judge may issue a warrant but he can't arrest someone - he can't decide they're guilty without due process.

America is built on checks on balances, why are you guys ok with them being thrown out the window ?

What will you do when Biden 2.0 gets elected and starts issuing executive orders that anyone who wants a saying it's a national emergency, and anyone who wants sex change shall get one for free paid for with emergency funds?


3 branches of government, each have their own jobs. It's pretty simple, and that's why I'm sure the supreme Court will rule them illegal.
Your judge comparison is not even close to the same. You are grasping at straws.

This is a delegation structure: Congress gave the power to the USTR, but the USTR operates under Presidential direction.

Trump and congress are going to get rid of the filibuster and repair the USA making America great again.
 

TarrifBoy123

New Member
Some people eats unhealthy food, some people smoke or drink too much alcohol, others riding motorcycles or doing risky sports, others have pre-existing conditions which others don‘t have … how much people choose their lifestyle according to a minimum health risk?
These people make those decisions individually so they also must individually pay for it. Though I do believe that we should help people of true need.
  • Those unable to work: the elderly, disabled, widows, orphans, and those genuinely incapacitated
  • The destitute and oppressed: those in extreme poverty due to oppression, injustice, misfortune, or circumstances beyond their control
  • Strangers and sojourners: foreigners living among us who are genuinely in need (not able-bodied individuals choosing dependency)
  • Neighbors and brothers: fellow community members who have fallen into poverty despite working
  • The hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, and imprisoned: those suffering these conditions (as Christ identifies with them in Matthew 25)
Biblically, there's a significant difference between:

Scenario A: A person injured once from risky behavior gets emergency help (mercy, Good Samaritan principle)

Scenario B: A system where the prudent are forced by taxation to continuously pay for the repeated, chosen consequences of others' ongoing reckless behavior (smoking for 40 years, habitual drunkenness leading to liver failure, etc.)

Scenario B seems to violate multiple Biblical principles:
  1. It removes consequences (contradicts Galatians 6:7)
  2. It's compulsory rather than voluntary charity
  3. It enables ongoing destructive behavior (violates Proverbs 19:19)
  4. It punishes the prudent to subsidize the foolish
However, Scripture also acknowledges we cannot always know if someone's condition is truly self-inflicted (the Book of Job is entirely about this). Pre-existing conditions, genetic factors, and unknown variables exist.

The Biblical answer might be: Voluntary, localized charity where the givers can use wisdom and discernment - not forced, universal systems that remove all consequences and cannot distinguish between misfortune and foolishness.
 

ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
Your judge comparison is not even close to the same. You are grasping at straws.

This is a delegation structure: Congress gave the power to the USTR, but the USTR operates under Presidential direction.

Trump and congress are going to get rid of the filibuster and repair the USA making America great again.
See, comments like that are what still make me think you're a troll, and all you're here for is to cause political drama - so I won't engage anymore.

Try posting a bit in the actual sign threads.
 
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TarrifBoy123

New Member
See, comments like that are what still make me think you're a troll, and all you're here for is to cause political drama - so I won't engage anymore.

Try posting a bit in the actual sign threads.
Once again, defeated in debate and you switch to name calling. How can you compare what a judge does to what a President does? They are both different jobs. Also, in my explainer of the actual law it says what happens. Trump is totally in his Presidential right to implement tariffs. How is this hard to understand?

Congress gave the power to the USTR, but the USTR operates under Presidential direction. -- SIMPLE
 
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ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
Once again, defeated in debate and you switch to name calling. How can you compare what a judge does to what a President does? They are both different jobs. Also, in my explainer of the actual law it says what happens. Trump is totally in his Presidential right to implement tariffs. How is this hard to understand?

Congress gave the power to the USTR, but the USTR operates under Presidential direction. -- SIMPLE
Rather than argue back and fourth, put your money where your mouth is like mike did. My $100 bet that the supreme court rules his tarrifs illegal still stands if you'd like in as well. unless you think the republican controlled supreme court is corrupt?

No point in arguing over it though, you can say I was defeated all you want, You feel one way, I feel another, so whats the point?
 

TarrifBoy123

New Member
Rather than argue back and fourth, put your money where your mouth is like mike did. My $100 bet that the supreme court rules his tarrifs illegal still stands if you'd like in as well. unless you think the republican controlled supreme court is corrupt?

No point in arguing over it though, you can say I was defeated all you want, You feel one way, I feel another, so whats the point?
Okay, well here is a long one. Instead of betting, I'd rather be the one being bet on. Here we go...

WHAT IS THIS CASE ABOUT?

President Trump has imposed tariffs on imports from nearly every country in the world, citing the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) of 1977 as his legal authority.

Businesses are challenging these tariffs, arguing that:
  • IEEPA doesn't authorize tariffs
  • The President exceeded his constitutional authority
  • Only Congress has the power to impose taxes
The Supreme Court must now decide: Does IEEPA give the President authority to impose tariffs?




WHY THIS MATTERS

This case has massive implications:

Economically:
  • $90+ billion in tariff revenue already collected
  • Potential $750 billion in refunds if tariffs are struck down
  • Affects virtually every American business and consumer
  • Impacts global trade relationships
Constitutionally:
  • Defines the scope of Presidential emergency powers
  • Clarifies the balance between Congressional and Executive authority
  • Sets precedent for future uses of IEEPA
Politically:
  • Tests whether emergency powers can be used for economic policy
  • Determines limits on Presidential unilateral action
  • Affects America's ability to respond to trade imbalances



THE CENTRAL LEGAL QUESTION

Does the word "regulate" in IEEPA's phrase "regulate importation" include the power to impose tariffs?
The statute says the President may "investigate, regulate, direct and compel, nullify, void, prevent or prohibit...importation" during a declared national emergency.

But it doesn't explicitly say "tariffs."



WHY I'M MAKING THIS ARGUMENT

We believe the Supreme Court must rule that IEEPA authorizes tariffs because:
  1. The text supports it - "regulate importation" naturally includes tariffs
  2. The precedent supports it - Courts already interpreted identical language this way
  3. Congressional intent supports it - Congress deliberately preserved this language knowing how it had been interpreted
  4. The Constitution requires it - Courts must interpret laws as written, not rewrite them
If the Court rules against the tariffs, it would not be interpreting the law—it would be making new law based on policy preferences rather than legal text.



PREFACE: THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE

THE SUPREME COURT'S CONSTITUTIONAL ROLE

The Supreme Court exists to interpret the law, not to make the law.
  • Congress writes the laws (Article I)
  • The President executes the laws (Article II)
  • The Courts interpret the laws (Article III)
This is the foundation of our constitutional system of separated powers.



WHAT IS STATUTORY INTERPRETATION?


When interpreting statutes, courts must determine what Congress meant by the words it chose.

The Supreme Court's job is to:
  • ✓ Read the text as written
  • ✓ Apply the ordinary meaning of the words
  • ✓ Consider the context and legislative history
  • ✓ Respect Congress's intent
The Supreme Court's job is NOT to:
  • ✗ Rewrite statutes to fit policy preferences
  • ✗ Narrow statutes because they don't like the results
  • ✗ Substitute judicial wisdom for congressional judgment
  • ✗ Legislate from the bench


THE PRINCIPLE: LEGISLATIVE SUPREMACY

If Congress wrote bad law, Congress must fix it.

If a statute grants too much power, is poorly worded, or produces undesirable results:
  • That is Congress's problem to solve
  • The remedy is legislative amendment
  • Courts must not "save Congress from itself"
As Justice Scalia famously said: "The judge's job is to apply the text, not to improve upon it."



IF CONGRESS WANTED TO EXCLUDE TARIFFS FROM IEEPA, CONGRESS SHOULD HAVE SAID SO


It's that simple.

Congress knows how to exclude things from statutes when it wants to. Congress knows how to write clear limitations. Congress had every opportunity to clarify or restrict the language.

Congress chose not to.



THE QUESTION BEFORE THE COURT IS NOT:

  • "Should the President have this much power?"
  • "Do we like this policy?"
  • "Is this good for the economy?"

THE QUESTION IS:

"What did Congress authorize when it wrote 'regulate importation'?"



Now let's examine what Congress actually did...



THE DEFINITIVE ARGUMENT: CONGRESS KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS DOING


THE FACTS (Chronological & Irrefutable):

1971 - President Nixon uses TWEA's "regulate importation" language to impose 10% tariff on all imports

1975 - Court of Customs and Patent Appeals rules in United States v. Yoshida International: "regulate importation" INCLUDES tariff authority

1977
- Congress holds hearings to reform TWEA and create IEEPA
  • Congress KNOWS Nixon used TWEA for tariffs
  • Congress KNOWS Yoshida upheld this interpretation
  • Scholar Andreas F. Lowenfeld testifies that Yoshida reasoning was "thin"
  • Lowenfeld EXPLICITLY RECOMMENDS changing the statutory language
Congress's Response: KEPT THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE - "regulate importation" - and transferred it from TWEA Section 5(b)(1)(B) to IEEPA Section 203(a)(1)(B)


THE LEGAL PRINCIPLE:

Legislative Acquiescence/Ratification by Reenactment

When Congress:
  1. ✓ Is aware of judicial interpretation of specific statutory language
  2. ✓ Receives testimony recommending changing that language
  3. ✓ Deliberately chooses to keep the same language
Congress has adopted and ratified that judicial interpretation

This is BLACK LETTER LAW in statutory interpretation.



THE INESCAPABLE CONCLUSION:

Congress intended "regulate importation" to include tariff authority.

If Congress wanted to exclude tariffs, they had:
  • Knowledge of how courts interpreted the language
  • Warning that the language authorized tariffs
  • Recommendation to change it
  • Opportunity to change it
They chose not to.


THE SUPREME COURT'S JOB:


The Supreme Court's role is to interpret what Congress wrote, not to rewrite what Congress should have written.

If the Court says "regulate importation" doesn't mean tariffs, the Court would be:
  • ❌ Ignoring Yoshida precedent
  • ❌ Ignoring Congress's deliberate choice to preserve the language
  • ❌ Substituting judicial judgment for legislative intent
  • Making law instead of interpreting it

THE BOTTOM LINE:

The text says "regulate importation." The precedent says that means tariffs. Congress knew both these facts and kept the language anyway.

Case closed.



This is textualism. This is originalism. This is basic statutory interpretation. The Court should rule accordingly.
 

ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
I thought your posts werent AI generated?

If you want to argue with AI, go argue with AI... asking it to generate cherry picked information is meaningless.

I can get AI to say the exact opposite of what you just said by asking it to "use just the facts" or "from a left leaning perspective". Ieepa doesnt mention the word tariffs at all, so you can post your AI dribble all you want, but again...go read the actual articles instead of being told what to believe. ... If you actually cared, you pretty much just proved all your "thoughtful presentations of facts" are AI generated crap... so once again, you're just here to bait people into fighting. Last time I reply, for real this time! just wanted to point out to others who already knew / suspected you were just using chatgpt, that you are indeed just using chatgpt, and have gotten lazy enough to not even try to format it to look like you're not.

1762673919211.png
 
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Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
I thought your posts werent AI generated?

If you want to argue with AI, go argue with AI... asking it to generate cherry picked information is meaningless.

I can get AI to say the exact opposite of what you just said by asking it to "use just the facts" or "from a left leaning perspective". Ieepa doesnt mention the word tariffs at all, so you can post your AI dribble all you want, but again...go read the actual articles instead of being told what to believe. ... If you actually cared, you pretty much just proved all your "thoughtful presentations of facts" are AI generated crap... so once again, you're just here to bait people into fighting. Last time I reply, for real this time! just wanted to point out to others who already knew / suspected you were just using chatgpt, that you are indeed just using chatgpt, and have gotten lazy enough to not even try to format it to look like you're not.

View attachment 179739
He's a troll. Just block him
 
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TarrifBoy123

New Member
He's a troll. Just block him
This comment is a textbook example of "ad hominem": when someone can't defend their position, they attack your character (troll/bot/or what ever name calling) and advocate for shutting down discussion (block him) instead of addressing your actual points.
 

TarrifBoy123

New Member
The core of my argument is "The Separation of Powers Argument)

If the Supreme Court rules that IEEPA doesn't authorize tariffs, the Court would be:
  1. Ignoring what Congress actually wrote - The text says "regulate importation"
  2. Ignoring what Congress knew when it wrote it - They knew about Yoshida
  3. Ignoring Congress's deliberate choice - They were told to change it and didn't
  4. Rewriting the statute - Inserting limitations Congress didn't include
That IS judicial legislation.

The proper sequence is:
  • Congress writes law (even if it's bad law)
  • President executes law
  • Courts interpret law as written
  • If the law is bad, Congress fixes it
NOT:
  • Congress writes law
  • Courts don't like the results
  • Courts rewrite the law
  • Congress gets to avoid political responsibility

Trump's point that he wrote today is actually legally devastating to the opposing argument:

This is the legal principle of expressio unius est exclusio alterius in reverse: if you have the power to do the greater thing (ban all trade), you have the power to do the lesser thing (tax trade).

1762722693231.png


If the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs, the consequences would be catastrophic:

Immediate Economic Impact:

  • $750 billion in refunds owed
  • Massive disruption to federal budget
  • Chaos in international trade relationships
  • Businesses that relocated based on tariff policy get screwed
  • Every trade negotiation leverage tool disappears

Constitutional Crisis:

  • President can still ban all trade (which is worse)
  • But can't use proportional, measured response (tariffs)
  • Creates perverse incentives for extreme action
  • Weakens America's negotiating position globally

Foreign Policy Disaster:

  • Other countries CAN tariff us
  • We can't respond in kind
  • China, EU, etc. have permanent advantage
  • "Tariff us all you want, our courts won't let us respond"

Judicial Overreach:

The Court would be saying: "Even though Congress wrote language that courts previously said means tariffs, and Congress knew that interpretation and kept the language, we're going to rule Congress didn't mean what it said because we don't like the policy result."

That's the definition of judicial activism.


If IEEPA grants too much power (which it doesn't, the President should have power to tariff as it is an important tool and needs to be timely):

  • Congress should amend IEEPA
  • Congress should add explicit limitations
  • Congress should clarify the language
  • Congress should pass new legislation
The Court should NOT:
  • Rescue Congress from its own drafting choices
  • Impose limitations Congress didn't write
  • Rewrite statutes to fit policy preferences
  • Do Congress's job for it
 

TarrifBoy123

New Member
Furthermore...

WHY TARIFF AUTHORITY MUST BE PRESIDENTIAL

1. SPEED & TIMING ARE EVERYTHING

Economic/Trade emergencies require immediate response:
  • China dumps steel to destroy US industry → Need tariff THIS WEEK, not after 6 months of congressional debate
  • Foreign country suddenly bans US exports → Need leverage NOW
  • Currency manipulation threatens US jobs → Can't wait for Congress to return from recess
  • National security threat from foreign supply chain → Must act before damage is done
Congress is institutionally incapable of moving fast enough:
  • Takes months to pass legislation
  • Subject to political gridlock
  • 535 members with competing interests
  • Slow committee processes
  • Filibuster delays

By the time Congress acts, the economic damage is done and irreversible.




2. NEGOTIATING LEVERAGE REQUIRES CREDIBLE THREATS

Trump's quote reveals why this matters:

Other countries negotiate knowing:
  • Their leaders can impose tariffs immediately
  • US President might need congressional approval
  • Therefore, they can call America's bluff
Real negotiation scenario:
  • China: "We're going to tariff your soybeans"
  • US (under your opponent's view): "Well, let me ask Congress... I'll get back to you in 3-6 months after committee hearings"
  • China: laughs and implements tariffs immediately
vs.
  • China: "We're going to tariff your soybeans"
  • US: "Then I'm tariffing your steel tomorrow"
  • China: "Let's negotiate"

Tariff authority without speed is no authority at all.




3. THE CONSTITUTIONAL FRAMERS UNDERSTOOD THIS

The Constitution gives the President authority over:
  • Foreign affairs
  • National defense
  • Negotiating with foreign powers
  • Emergency action
Why? Because these areas require:
  • Unity of command
  • Speed of action
  • Confidentiality in negotiation
  • Flexibility and discretion

The Framers gave Congress the power to declare war but gave the President power to conduct war. Same principle applies here:
  • Congress sets trade policy (through laws like IEEPA)
  • President executes that policy (through tariffs when conditions are met)



4. CONGRESS ALREADY MADE THIS CHOICE

This is key: Congress chose to delegate this authority precisely because Congress recognized it couldn't do the job.

When Congress passed:
  • IEEPA (1977)
  • Section 232 (national security)
  • Section 301 (unfair trade)

Congress was saying: "We recognize the President needs tools to respond quickly to trade threats. Here are the conditions under which the President can act."


If Congress didn't want Presidents using these tools, Congress shouldn't have created them.





5. THE PRACTICAL REALITY OF MODERN TRADE

Today's global economy moves at digital speed:
  • Markets react in milliseconds
  • Supply chains span dozens of countries
  • Economic warfare can devastate industries overnight
  • Foreign governments act unilaterally and quickly
A President without tariff authority is like:
  • A firefighter who needs city council approval before using the hose
  • A doctor who needs committee approval before treating a heart attack
  • A general who needs congressional debate before responding to an attack

The tool is worthless if you can't use it when needed.




6. THIS ISN'T ABOUT TRUMP, IT'S ABOUT THE PRESIDENCY

Whoever opposes Trump's tariff authority should answer:

When China:
  • Steals intellectual property
  • Subsidizes industries to destroy US competitors
  • Manipulates currency
  • Threatens Taiwan and cuts off semiconductor supplies
  • Bans US agricultural products
What should the President do?

Wait for Congress? By then:
  • US industries are bankrupt
  • Jobs are gone
  • Leverage is lost
  • China wins



7. CONGRESS HAS OVERSIGHT, THAT'S THE BALANCE of POWER

IEEPA doesn't give unlimited power. It requires:
  • Declaration of national emergency (public & reviewable)
  • Congressional notification
  • Congressional ability to terminate the emergency
  • Annual renewal requirements
  • Judicial review of whether emergency exists
That's the constitutional balance:
  • President acts quickly
  • Congress oversees
  • Courts review for abuse
NOT:
  • President asks permission
  • Congress debates for months
  • Nothing happens


If the Supreme Court rules IEEPA doesn't authorize tariffs, the we should ask:

Q: Can the President ban ALL imports from China under IEEPA? A: Yes (even they admit this)


Q: Can the President seize all Chinese assets in America? A: Yes


Q: Can the President prohibit all American companies from doing business with China? A: Yes


Q: But the President can't impose a 10% tariff? A: According to them, no.


This is insane.


You're saying the President has the nuclear option (total ban) but not the scalpel (proportional tariff)?


That creates a perverse incentive: Use extreme measures because moderate measures are forbidden.




I now have a three part case:​


PART 1: LEGAL (My original argument)​

  • Text says "regulate importation"
  • Yoshida interpreted this to include tariffs
  • Congress knew and kept the language
  • Courts must interpret, not rewrite

PART 2: CONSTITUTIONAL (My meta-argument)​

  • If the law is bad, Congress must fix it
  • Courts can't rewrite statutes they don't like
  • Separation of powers requires judicial restraint
  • Legislative supremacy is foundational

PART 3: FUNCTIONAL (This argument with Trump's additional input)​

  • Trade emergencies require immediate response
  • Negotiation requires credible threats
  • Modern economy moves too fast for congressional process
  • President needs tools proportional to the threats
  • This is about the Presidency, not just Trump



In Finishing (for now)​


The Supreme Court should uphold the tariffs because:
  1. The law clearly authorizes them (textualism)
  2. Congress deliberately chose this language (legislative intent)
  3. Courts must not legislate from the bench (separation of powers)
  4. The President needs this tool to defend American interests (functional government)
  5. Striking down tariffs while leaving embargoes makes no sense (absurdity doctrine)
If opponents don't like this result:
  • Convince Congress to amend IEEPA
  • Propose specific limitations
  • Pass new legislation
  • Don't ask courts to do Congress's job
 
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