UV LED Printing ADA signs

[Robert Wilcox]

Hello all and thank you for letting me be a part of this community.
I work for a sign company and we want to start making ada compliant Braille signs.
I’m leaning toward the UV LED printing process over other processes like photopolymer, sandblasting and thermoforming.
-What is your opinion on the UV printing process for ada signs?
-I’m aware of Direct Color Systems and logojet, but what other brands are there? What are your opinions on DCS, logojet and other brands?
Thank you for your time.
Rob

 

[WYLDGFI]

Welcome aboard...not far from ya. DCS Is the only printer I have physically seen in person ...at the AC Sign Show....that can do the ADA depth on the small plaques and such to be compliant. They seem to be solid machines but slow to print.

 

[Forty One]

Avoid the 1200 X 900 bed from DCS.
We had one of the first ones they shipped to Australia. And it was plagued with problems.
Had to give it back.

For the money, I could have bought a second hand Arizona that delivers non stop.

 

[bigben]

Hello all and thank you for letting me be a part of this community.
I work for a sign company and we want to start making ada compliant Braille signs.
I’m leaning toward the UV LED printing process over other processes like photopolymer, sandblasting and thermoforming.
-What is your opinion on the UV printing process for ada signs?
-I’m aware of Direct Color Systems and logojet, but what other brands are there? What are your opinions on DCS, logojet and other brands?
Thank you for your time.
Rob

I'm also doing my homework right now for doing ADA signs. I would like to be able to produce tactile and braille. Our business is mainly architectural products, so doing ADA would be a great addition.

 

[Robert Wilcox]

I'm also doing my homework right now for doing ADA signs. I would like to be able to produce tactile and braille. Our business is mainly architectural products, so doing ADA would be a great addition.

What have you found? Direct Color Systems seems to be a safe bet but they have some AWFUL reviews. Then there seems to be a ton of other companies that sell them.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Here is an image of braille/tactile off our Vanguard.

These are .031 thick with the proper doming diameter... But they aren't off a DCS and can lead to inspection issues in some states.

 

[StratoJet]

You can look at a StratoJet, we have a lot of people printing both. In fact you can lay up to 16 layers of ink in one pass; Braille is usually between 58-64 layers. You can layer with White, Clear, CMYK, a combination and all other ink colors.

 

[bigben]

What have you found? Direct Color Systems seems to be a safe bet but they have some AWFUL reviews. Then there seems to be a ton of other companies that sell them.

Well, we just started our investigation last week. So we are not very far. We have looked at DCS, but with the reviews, we are looking for something else. We are currently looking into Mimaki, Mutoh, Roland with their small footprint flatbed to see if this would work.

Here is an image of braille/tactile off our Vanguard.

These are .031 thick with the proper doming diameter... But they aren't off a DCS and can lead to inspection issues in some states.

Very interesting. But we are looking for a machine with a smaller footprint.

You can look at a StratoJet, we have a lot of people printing both. In fact you can lay up to 16 layers of ink in one pass; Braille is usually between 58-64 layers. You can layer with White, Clear, CMYK, a combination and all other ink colors.

Very interesting too.

 

[Superior_Adam]

if your doing low quantities UV printing may be ok but woudl be awfully slow to build it up enough to conform to ADA guidelines. We laser cut and use the raster braille dots on all of ours. A lot cleaner look.

 

[bigben]

if your doing low quantities UV printing may be ok but woudl be awfully slow to build it up enough to conform to ADA guidelines. We laser cut and use the raster braille dots on all of ours. A lot cleaner look.

Good to know. Can you give me more details on the equipment to do this? Can you also do tactile?

 

[CanuckSigns]

if your doing low quantities UV printing may be ok but woudl be awfully slow to build it up enough to conform to ADA guidelines. We laser cut and use the raster braille dots on all of ours. A lot cleaner look.

I agree, we do quite a bit of interior ADA signs with our laser and raster braille setup, I've seen the small UV printers doing braille/tactile and it is a very slow process, if you had an order for 500 signs to produce with a small Roland UV printer you would drive yourself nuts!

However the ability to print a design into the background of the acrylic and have the tactile be any colour you want has been intriguing to me a few times for sure!

 

[Superior_Adam]

Good to know. Can you give me more details on the equipment to do this? Can you also do tactile?

You would need an engraving machine to drill the holes for the Raster Braille beads, the Raster tools from Accent Signage and a laser engraver to cut the words and images out. A lot more equipment but we can manufacture signs a lot faster than printing. As far as engravers we use a Xenetech for 1 off signs and we also have a Vision where the Raster pen sits in the machine and can punch holes then have the machine insert the beads.

 

[Superior_Adam]

I agree, we do quite a bit of interior ADA signs with our laser and raster braille setup, I've seen the small UV printers doing braille/tactile and it is a very slow process, if you had an order for 500 signs to produce with a small Roland UV printer you would drive yourself nuts!

However the ability to print a design into the background of the acrylic and have the tactile be any colour you want has been intriguing to me a few times for sure!

We are lucky and have 7 UV printers in house. We print on the back side of acrylic and then do the raised letters/braille after. We are able to print 4x8 sheets and route them out quickly.

 

[StratoJet]

Well, we just started our investigation last week. So we are not very far. We have looked at DCS, but with the reviews, we are looking for something else. We are currently looking into Mimaki, Mutoh, Roland with their small footprint flatbed to see if this would work.

We do have a 4x4’ version of our flat bed

 

[bigben]

We are lucky and have 7 UV printers in house. We print on the back side of acrylic and then do the raised letters/braille after. We are able to print 4x8 sheets and route them out quickly.

How do you make tactile?

 

[Robert Wilcox]

We are lucky and have 7 UV printers in house. We print on the back side of acrylic and then do the raised letters/braille after. We are able to print 4x8 sheets and route them out quickly.

7 printers! WOW! Good for you! I’m starting much smaller, for budget reasons. I’m really leaning towards uv print instead of other methods. I have a couple questions:
Most of the signs well make will be for state funded projects we bid on.
Do you quote state funded jobs where architects are involved and specs? Have you had architects refuse your uv signs?
We have to give a 5 year warranty on the signs we install, have you had problems with the longevity of the Braille/copy? Do you think a 5 year warranty is achievable?
What brand of machinery do you use? Have you encountered Direct Color Systems?
Thank you for all the help.

 

[StratoJet]

Have you had architects refuse your uv signs?
Not for ADA/Braille specs; there’s the usual ‘printing’ stuff
We have to give a 5 year warranty on the signs we install, have you had problems with the longevity of the Braille/copy? Do you think a 5 year warranty is achievable?
Indoor is no problem with most inks, but the oils from touching can cause issues for some. Also, with the constant Covid cleaning, some issues might arise over time. Just to get the contract, you could offer a ‘warranty’ to offer to replace a sign for a discount. This would put your customer at ease and in most cases never needing replacement.
What brand of machinery do you use?
We manufacture our StratoJet printers and this info is collected feedback from years of data (our research, feedback, customers...)

 

[OakhurstPrinter]

We run a Mimaki JFX200 and have just acquired a DCS UTB. Our biggest issue is the Mimaki prints a primer where the DCS does not. All of our tactile and braille is breaking off easily. Due to our process, applying the adhesion promoter defeats the purpose for purchasing the DCS as it adds a step when we are trying to eliminate steps. We are still in testing and the machine has produced no profits yet. Colors are great, machine is quiet compared to the Mimaki, and the training staff is helpful when you can reach them. Just some of our recent experience to consider.

 

[bowtievega]

We were able to do a demo at Mutoh with their XpertJet 661 and i have to say it does a nice job printing. The raised copy and braille had awesome adhesion on a variety of substrates we brought down including non glare acrylic, painted substrates, metal laminates. The raised characters do have a little bit of a texture to them so they don't look as super clean as cut Rowmark graphics. The machine is just kind of small and not super fast but being able to do copy and braille at the same time would be a huge time saver. We tried some test prints on our Mimaki JFX-200 and that didn't go well. Just can't put enough material down efficiently and the inks just don't adhere well enough. When you start building up ink it is too easy to pick at it and pop it off. When we upgrade our flatbed we will be looking at a machine that can efficiently print ADA and braille as well.

 

[zgilbert]

Here is an image of braille/tactile off our Vanguard.

These are .031 thick with the proper doming diameter... But they aren't off a DCS and can lead to inspection issues in some states.

Hey what vanguard printer did you use to do this? Been printing with vanguard for 3 years now CET 1 year before that. Been thinking about doing some signs like this for local projects but haven't dived into it yet. Thank you.