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Vg-540) Colors

PITBULL DESIGN

New Member
Have a new VG-540 CMYKcmk. Other than RVW colors(and these aren't the greatest either), everything seems to come out dull and not vibrant at all. I'm coming from an old sp540v and the colors are not even close to what I had been getting and other than the speed it's been pretty frustrating.

I'm saving as an eps, from multiple programs with the same results.

I have tried every canned profile along with every rendering intent possible with the same results.

I don't have a spectrometer yet, so I cant build any profiles.

Thank you in advance.
 

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DunbarPG

New Member
We made the same transition last october. When we first got the VG, I was blown away by the speed and quality. Now, only 4-5 months later, it is constantly going down. The cut calibration is awful, and I can't keep the print quality consistent. Now I have a print head completely dropped out and waiting for replacement only 4 months in. I put alot of miles on the SP and never had this much trouble. Also ran a VS-540i for years with no issues. I assume your using Versaworks Dual as it comes with the VG, and I have found that it processes colors in .pdf better than it does for .eps. Try sending as a .pdf to see if it helps at all. Good Luck.
 
Hey Pitbull Design,

Based on your description, it seems related to the media type (profile) selected. For comparison testing, try Generic Vinyl (standard) mode to see if that improves the quality (not washed out).

If you have additional questions or need extra support directly from Roland corporate support, please submit an "official" support request form online here: Product Support Form | Roland

If you do write us, we look forward to helping you and take care,

Roland Technical Support
Roland DGA Corp.
rn
 

advision

New Member
We made the same transition last october. When we first got the VG, I was blown away by the speed and quality. Now, only 4-5 months later, it is constantly going down. The cut calibration is awful, and I can't keep the print quality consistent. Now I have a print head completely dropped out and waiting for replacement only 4 months in. I put alot of miles on the SP and never had this much trouble. Also ran a VS-540i for years with no issues. I assume your using Versaworks Dual as it comes with the VG, and I have found that it processes colors in .pdf better than it does for .eps. Try sending as a .pdf to see if it helps at all. Good Luck.

Not to derail the thread but I figured I'd give my input here. The VGs need a crop mark filter installed or else crop mark detection is a pain. Apparently it was figured out and the SG machines come with it already installed, but the VGs do not. Once we had that installed, cutting and cut calibration has been a breeze. We have had some issues with cutter downforce but those were largely cleared up with the newest firmware (2.20). Fingers crossed we don't lose a head so early, do you know what caused it? Our local tech has been pretty interested in helping with our machine though because there's only a few installed in our area and she wants to learn more about it.

Back on topic
I can't say from color vibrancy though, out of the box the VG has been a bit brighter and bolder than our XC 540 was especially the greens. The PDF trick was also recommended to us by the installation tech, but our EPS output has been great so we haven't used it. We're running it in dual CMYK mode, although it's my understanding that the ink setups don't affect gamut just gradient smoothness so I wouldn't think that would have a dulling effect like you're describing.

Is there a checkbox somewhere that's overriding your selections? The output should change noticably between say Pre-Press US and MAX Impact. Also, the ink system is different in this machine from you're old machine so you may need too choose new colors if you don't have the ability to profile to match the old ones. There's probably not gonna be a setting that just outputs the same or similar colors.

My opinion is that the VG was shipped too early and we are sort of beta testing it. A lot of the issues we've had have been relatively small. There are some engineering flaws though, but this thread is about color so I won't go into it.

Biggest problem I'm facing right now is an issue with versaworks dual, but I think it has to do with a faulty install that I haven't had time to work out.
 

PITBULL DESIGN

New Member
Not to derail the thread but I figured I'd give my input here. The VGs need a crop mark filter installed or else crop mark detection is a pain. Apparently it was figured out and the SG machines come with it already installed, but the VGs do not. Once we had that installed, cutting and cut calibration has been a breeze. We have had some issues with cutter downforce but those were largely cleared up with the newest firmware (2.20). Fingers crossed we don't lose a head so early, do you know what caused it? Our local tech has been pretty interested in helping with our machine though because there's only a few installed in our area and she wants to learn more about it.

Back on topic
I can't say from color vibrancy though, out of the box the VG has been a bit brighter and bolder than our XC 540 was especially the greens. The PDF trick was also recommended to us by the installation tech, but our EPS output has been great so we haven't used it. We're running it in dual CMYK mode, although it's my understanding that the ink setups don't affect gamut just gradient smoothness so I wouldn't think that would have a dulling effect like you're describing.

Is there a checkbox somewhere that's overriding your selections? The output should change noticably between say Pre-Press US and MAX Impact. Also, the ink system is different in this machine from you're old machine so you may need too choose new colors if you don't have the ability to profile to match the old ones. There's probably not gonna be a setting that just outputs the same or similar colors.

My opinion is that the VG was shipped too early and we are sort of beta testing it. A lot of the issues we've had have been relatively small. There are some engineering flaws though, but this thread is about color so I won't go into it.

Biggest problem I'm facing right now is an issue with versaworks dual, but I think it has to do with a faulty install that I haven't had time to work out.



The firmware update also fixed a lot of my cutting issues. I did not know about the crop filter. So sick of the cannot find cropmark error, so that is a must do.

I understand that it is a new ink type and was expecting some issues, but reworking almost every file has been a lengthy, frustrating process to say the least.

I don't know what could be overriding it, but there is very little color shift between outputs. It's there but not very noticeable. I know I need to just start making my own profiles, but I haven't decided on what spectrophotometer to get
 

DunbarPG

New Member
I think most of my problems were related to a faulty head from the manufacturer. My new head is installed now and everything is going swimmingly. Is the crop mark error happening on the first mark or the last? I noticed that (since I don't typically run the media clamps) the last crop mark it got to, would always error out, and it was because with all the forward weight of the print, it caused a slight bow in the vinyl at the final crop mark. When this happened I simply add a little tension by hand to flatten it out and it goes through just fine.
 

advision

New Member
In my experience the crop mark error was occurring on the second crop mark. It would find the first one the miss the second one by what looked like a nanometer. Went back and forth with support and my tech trying to figure out what it was and then magically my tech talked to someone who knew about the crop mark filter. It's just a little piece of plastic that is placed over the crop mark sensor. I'm pretty sure it needs to be installed on every VG, although any tech in the know should be bringing one with them on install and the customer would never know the difference. It brought us from a 5% success rate to solid 100%. Have not had a single crop mark issue after that.

As far as colors go we have a spectrometer but I've never actually had much luck with it. I believe in order to get any real results out of it you'll need to get the expensive in house training or go to one of the offsite group training classes. I went through all the materials I could find online but could never get it very much more accurate than just using the default profiles. I was able successfully adjust the ink density and smooth the existing profile curves for a little bit nicer output, but I couldn't make any headway as far as being able to measure a target and get consistent accurate reproduction from the printer.

It hasn't been too big of an issue though since we print almost 90% spot colors we just print out a bunch of swatches and pretty granular RGB and CMYK color charts and match that way. Also our CMYK Pantone color bridge has been very helpful when we get a Pantone color from a client. If we were doing a bunch of raster stuff I may have invested in the training. We have also been going through the process of finding the new colors to replace the old colors for our major clients files. We have it in a pretty good spot now and the bonus is since the new inks are brighter for us we've been able to actually "upgrade" some of the old colors to targets we would've liked to been able to hit all along.
 
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