VS540I took a shit, Looking to get VG3540- Questions on color set up is WHITE WORTH IT?

[FORMATMOTO]

Hey all,

Looking for some professional assistance here. I have been using Roland products since 2017. I have a GR-540 and a VS540i. I originally bought the VS540i because of the metallic and white printing it could do.

The graphics Roland sent me as samples were much more opaque than my printer EVER got on any job trying to print, not to mention that the white was translucent as hell. This is part of what sold me on the printer and it did not deliver on what Roland sent out as samples.

I bought my GR-540 to perf cu and it BLOWS at perf cutting. Roland was NEVER any help for me in this regard and so many people have has issues with this cutter. It works great for my moto graphics so I am hanging onto it, but I hope the VG3-540 can perf cut some jobs. I have spent thousands of dollars on materials trying to test this.

I replaced my printhead 2-3 years ago on my VS540i and it just took a shit, mind you I clean this thing all the time. I have used jet best inks as I never had an issue with them, plus my warranty was out- I am not investing anymore money into this thing so I am getting a new printer. I am in Colorado, so if anyone wants to buy a very well maintained VS540i that needs a printhead, holla- SORRY LONG ADHD WAY AROUND TO QUETIONS BELOW**

***My questions are, is anyone producing Motocross Graphics or sticker runs with the VG3-540 with white? is the process still insanely slow? has the new white gotten anymore opaque than the Eco Sol Max 2 inks? What are your thoughts on this? I would LOVE to be able to print on clear film with white or on metallic with white and color. I am worried I am going to experience the same slow and very transparent white prints I did with the VS540I. Any help here would be grateful.

My work consists of sticker runs, partial vehicle wraps, banners, large stickers and posters and moto graphics.

I need to make a decision within a week any help in regards to decision on color configuration would be helpful. These are what I am considering-

8 COLORS: C, M, Y, K, LC, LM, OR, GR(im leaning this way but wanna hear about end users experiences with the new tru vis whites)
or
8 COLORS: C, M, Y, K, LK, OR, GR, WH(my old machine had LC and LM and I loved it, but im willing to forgo those if the white is baller and have a larger range in greys)

Let me know what route you would go with and why.

Thank you kindly for your time-

 

[cornholio]

I sell Roland since 1992 and love the products for their servicability. But to get an opaque white, you need a HP Latex or a UV printer.( Roland LG or Mimaki 330.)

 

[MrDav3C]

Can't really comment from experience and I'd guess people will disagree but unless your printing lots of illuminated signage of graphics onto clear vinyl then there isn't much point having white ink.

I also believe on solvent printers the which isn't exactly a true white and the lifespan of the ink isn't great and it can dry out ink lines etc. pretty quickly unless you are using it all the time.

Perhaps this has improved over the past few years & I'm sure there are people with more experience with white ink that know a lot more about this than I do.

 

[FORMATMOTO]

Thanks for your responses. I would love to to hear from more owners of this printer that have white- I likely won't be getting it because of its transparency-

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Not a Roland tech, but I do mess with their printers and stock some aftermarket inks for them. When it comes to white solvent ink, it's a solid pass for most people. Either go 8 color if doing highly colorful stuff where accuracy matters, like photos, skin tones, etc. Or, if you just want bulk production and speed, dual CMYK is the way to go. Still plenty good for all but the pickiest of people, and a nice bump in production speed.

If you do have to do white, yeah, UV is where it is at. Since the ink is cured as it's put down, you can stack ink. Put wet solvent ink over dried solvent ink and you get a thicker goo. As such, you're really limited on just how much masking the white ink can do. Considering it's also crazy clog prone as well, it usually just isn't worth the hassle. One of our customers ran it on their VG540 series printers and only needed it very rarely, most of it went down into the waste tank with cleaning cycles. I think they just thought changing color sets was going to be a huge hassle and didn't want to bother.

 

[SlikGRFX]

In my experience Epson eco solvent white ink is better than Roland eco solvent white ink. It clogs less and is more opaque (but still not as opaque as UV). Same with their metallic inks. But like any solvent white or metallic, you need to run it every day to keep the heads and everything healthy.

There are companies running Epson white ink over holographic and chrome materials to create some stunning MX and Supermotard graphics. Standalone the white looks good, but put it next to a sheet of white vinyl and it looks pale grey. On a bike though, the effect is very nice.

I would say that UV is a no go for MX graphics as most thick MX laminates don't adhere properly to UV ink. You'd have to experiment if you go with a UV printer. Even UV white ink will allow colors to bleed though - it doesn't work directly over fluorescent vinyl - you need a black layer in between to mask the neon.

If I were you I'd get the industry standard printer for MX graphics - Epson S80600. 10 colours, wide gamut, orange and red inks, grey channel for neutral greys and white ink that you can put in when you need it. There will be plenty of used machines entering the market now the latest SC-9100 is available. If you can stretch to the brand new latest machine, the new printer has 11 ink channels and includes green ink for even wider gamut. That's what I would get for MX graphics.

 

[White Haus]

We used to run an XR-640 with white. At the time it was better than nothing - it allowed us to back certain prints up on clear vinyl.

Compared to any other print technology, the solvent white is the least opaque and most underwhelming. Personally I wouldn't recommend it - we ended up swapping the white ink cartridge with a cleaning cartridge to minimize the financial drain ending up in the waste ink tank.

 

[FORMATMOTO]

SLIK, thank you. I am pretty sure the S80600 has been discontinued- I would love to switch to EPSON, but, my cutter is a Roland and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to install/find a plugin for versa works crop marks to be able to print on a third parties program. I am not in a financial state to spend an extra 20k right now on the epson. They just released the s9170 which looks pyyyymmmp but it hasn't hit the states and is 27k for the printer alone and then you HAVE to upgrade the ONYX software which is another 2k and then get a graphic cutter. Ideally I would love to go this way, but we are looking at 40k when I need to be in the 15k market so I am where I am. Thanks everyone for your help. I am going to opt out of white. I was asking specifically because I have seen epsons white and it looks good for an eco sol white.

 

[SlikGRFX]

There are thousands of S80600 out there which means lots of knowledge and support. They are solid, reliable machines. Find a used one - there is one in the classifieds now for $6500. It will come with a lite version of Onyx RIP. Onyx will print Roland crop marks and run your Roland cutter no problem. Also Onyx will handle any future cutter upgrades too - there's even a used Graphtec in the classifieds for $4k. Then you'd have a very good setup for just over $10k. You could sell your whole Roland setup as a package.

I know it seems daunting changing from something you trust and are familiar with. We have used Rolands for over 18 years and still do. They are decent machines for the price, but there are better machines out there than Roland, especially if you consider used machines.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

One big downside to Epson is ink cost and lack of availability of aftermarket inks. They're kind of litigious when it comes to their stupid ink chips. Aftermarket ink isn't just about being cheap, quite often companies that specialize in inks can do a much better job than a company that specializes in selling you into an expensive locked-in ecosystem.

 

[SlikGRFX]

The debate about aftermarket vs original inks will go on. I've always stuck to genuine inks as I never thought the cost savings were worth it for my business (offset ink costs against availability/maintenance/servicing/profiling/consistency etc). For a decal or moto graphics company printing low volumes, competing on design and quality rather than purely on price, inks are relatively cheap.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Yup, every business has to find what fits for them, still nice to have options.

 

[White Haus]

The debate about aftermarket vs original inks will go on. I've always stuck to genuine inks as I never thought the cost savings were worth it for my business (offset ink costs against availability/maintenance/servicing/profiling/consistency etc). For a decal or moto graphics company printing low volumes, competing on design and quality rather than purely on price, inks are relatively cheap.

I always felt the same way until we eventually switched one of our old Rolands to Nazdar inks. We weren't a super high volume shop either but the cost savings were substantial. Nazdar has been making inks since before Roland existed and they know their stuff, but not so sure I would gamble with other 3rd party inks despite their recent track records though.

SLIK, thank you. I am pretty sure the S80600 has been discontinued- I would love to switch to EPSON, but, my cutter is a Roland and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to install/find a plugin for versa works crop marks to be able to print on a third parties program. I am not in a financial state to spend an extra 20k right now on the epson. They just released the s9170 which looks pyyyymmmp but it hasn't hit the states and is 27k for the printer alone and then you HAVE to upgrade the ONYX software which is another 2k and then get a graphic cutter. Ideally I would love to go this way, but we are looking at 40k when I need to be in the 15k market so I am where I am. Thanks everyone for your help. I am going to opt out of white. I was asking specifically because I have seen epsons white and it looks good for an eco sol white.

Honestly, if you're used to the Roland/Versaworks workflow then no harm in sticking with that for now. We started off with a XC-540, then added an XR-640, and since then have moved on to Mimaki UCJV and Epson S60600. Personally I wouldn't buy another Roland because I don't trust their new "and improved" models but I do miss the simplicity of a 100% Roland / VW workflow. Mixing brands and introducing Onyx, Cut Server etc. isn't an easy learning curve and comes with a pretty steep cost to get set up.

Once you can justify the $40K investment to step your whole game up you'll never look back, but it has to make financial sense.

 

[SlikGRFX]

All good info, which begs the question; If you had $15k to spend, would you buy a latest model Roland printer or a used Epson S80600 and a used Graphtec cutter? Assuming the printer and cutter were in good condition of course.

The setup I suggested wasn't even $15k, it was $10k after some negotiation which is $5k less than a new entry level Roland printer. That leaves some money for servicing, inks, materials, some advertising maybe.

 

[d fleming]

Hey all,

Looking for some professional assistance here. I have been using Roland products since 2017. I have a GR-540 and a VS540i. I originally bought the VS540i because of the metallic and white printing it could do.

The graphics Roland sent me as samples were much more opaque than my printer EVER got on any job trying to print, not to mention that the white was translucent as hell. This is part of what sold me on the printer and it did not deliver on what Roland sent out as samples.

I bought my GR-540 to perf cu and it BLOWS at perf cutting. Roland was NEVER any help for me in this regard and so many people have has issues with this cutter. It works great for my moto graphics so I am hanging onto it, but I hope the VG3-540 can perf cut some jobs. I have spent thousands of dollars on materials trying to test this.

I replaced my printhead 2-3 years ago on my VS540i and it just took a shit, mind you I clean this thing all the time. I have used jet best inks as I never had an issue with them, plus my warranty was out- I am not investing anymore money into this thing so I am getting a new printer. I am in Colorado, so if anyone wants to buy a very well maintained VS540i that needs a printhead, holla- SORRY LONG ADHD WAY AROUND TO QUETIONS BELOW**

***My questions are, is anyone producing Motocross Graphics or sticker runs with the VG3-540 with white? is the process still insanely slow? has the new white gotten anymore opaque than the Eco Sol Max 2 inks? What are your thoughts on this? I would LOVE to be able to print on clear film with white or on metallic with white and color. I am worried I am going to experience the same slow and very transparent white prints I did with the VS540I. Any help here would be grateful.

My work consists of sticker runs, partial vehicle wraps, banners, large stickers and posters and moto graphics.

I need to make a decision within a week any help in regards to decision on color configuration would be helpful. These are what I am considering-

8 COLORS: C, M, Y, K, LC, LM, OR, GR(im leaning this way but wanna hear about end users experiences with the new tru vis whites)
or
8 COLORS: C, M, Y, K, LK, OR, GR, WH(my old machine had LC and LM and I loved it, but im willing to forgo those if the white is baller and have a larger range in greys)

Let me know what route you would go with and why.

Thank you kindly for your time-

My first printer was a encad chroma, lol. Last one before I bought a small roland was a seiko colorpainter 64s. Many inbetween. I have to say roland has been the worst printer and service I have ever experienced hands down. Seiko was by far the best in all categories. If I get another it will be from them. Having said that I know a shop or two that have had rolands for some time, they have more than one so I assume they're happy.