Warping sign

[10sacer]

We fabricated this sign for a real estate showroom location in Las Vegas and in tow months it started to do what you can see in the photos.
Backer panel is 1/2" PVC painted with a woodgrain overlaminate glued down from Wilson Art.
I know the issue is the adhesive is drawing up the tension on the PVC. my question is what material should be used so this doesn't happen?
Average humidity in Vegas is about 30%.

Thanks in advance

 

[Bonzai901]

I think that the warping is from the heat produced by the lights, probably is on 24/7

 

[unclebun]

MDF. Built like a cabinet/countertop since you're using cabinet laminate.

 

[MarkSnelling]

The laminate - did you apply with a laminator? It looks like classic "too much tension" where the laminate is trying to contract causing the board to contract with it.

IF you used a laminator and if the sign went through 'top to bottom' as far as the direction through the laminator, then that could be your problem.

 

[unclebun]

The laminate - did you apply with a laminator? It looks like classic "too much tension" where the laminate is trying to contract causing the board to contract with it.

IF you used a laminator and if the sign went through 'top to bottom' as far as the direction through the laminator, then that could be your problem.

WilsonArt laminate is not a vinyl film. It's what is used to finish countertops. Like Formica, but a different brand.

 

[10sacer]

WilsonArt laminate is not a vinyl film. It's what is used to finish countertops. Like Formica, but a different brand.

Correct!

 

[StarSign]

Does it get any sun at all? Vegas is an oven then add sun shining through the glass and that's Chernobyl.

 

[DL Signs]

PVC is pretty pliable and bendable... Never used countertop lams on pliable material, I know it's manufactured to be rolled for shipping, maybe it retains that curl if applied to pliable stuff like PVC??? Something more rigid like acrylic would probably do the trick if you're going to re-do it.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Why use PVC for signs? Never understood why people choose that material over others. Use acrylic for something like that.

 

[cwstevens]

1/4" to 3/8" acrylic would be a better choice for the bkgd. I'm guessing between the laminate contact cement on maybe 1/4" thick PVC is reacting and causing curling / warping.
1/4" pvc is notorious for warping with any kind of heat, add chemical reaction and you got yourself a potato chip on the wall.
PVC has its place, but usually for short term and I would not recommend for outdoors

 

[DL Signs]

You could also use Di-Noc instead of countertop laminate... Just a thought.

 

[Ziklag]

You can also paint PVC with an oil base paint but it needs to be primed both sides then coated with finish paint both sides. Although consistent heat from lighting is potential reason to PVC bending, as cwstevens suggests,. As far as I know, I've painted both sides of PVC panels and did prevent wrappage even while being out side. We know that PVC is an open cellular material that easily succumbs to moisture or heat in given environments, if not prepped appropriately, bending is invited.
One last note; I notice the panel is suspended of the wall so the sign panel has nothing to stabilize itself to remain in a flat position. That may be consider at this junction just as well. PVC should always have a flat backing to be stable and not bend or if it needs spacing in back then continue with painting both sides then after fully cured, apply the laminate finish. If the finish can be printed to mimic a wood appearance surface instead of a glued laminate which can be aggressive as the adhesive cures putting tension to thin panels of PVC to buckle then printing would be considered a direction to go.
Hope that helps and btw, that's a cool design!

Sign I did 4 years ago;
It shows the same principle (second surface halo-lighted) except constructed from ext. aluminum channeled letters. There was a night I had to replace a section and I could feel the heat of the LED - not extremely hot but warm. So I believe your sign is generating some level of heat that's something to take into consideration.

 

[Jean Shimp]

You could also use Di-Noc instead of countertop laminate... Just a thought.

Where can I buy a small piece of Di-Noc?

 

[cwstevens]

not sure you can get small pieces of Di-Noc, unless it's just sample size like 4" x 4", seems like we have to order one of the 'full roll' size offerings....

 

[DL Signs]

Where can I buy a small piece of Di-Noc?

Check with your vendors that handle 3M, they will often sell by the yard if they have any in stock, otherwise Fellers sells 48" wide by the yard... I know, we don't like using them either, but if they have what you need and your regular vendors don't...

 

[10sacer]

Does it get any sun at all? Vegas is an oven then add sun shining through the glass and that's Chernobyl.

No, its in an interior hallway with no windows

 

[10sacer]

You could also use Di-Noc instead of countertop laminate... Just a thought.

DiNoc didn't have a woodgrain close enough to the laminate they had used at other locations in Florida

 

[10sacer]

PVC is pretty pliable and bendable... Never used countertop lams on pliable material, I know it's manufactured to be rolled for shipping, maybe it retains that curl if applied to pliable stuff like PVC??? Something more rigid like acrylic would probably do the trick if you're going to re-do it.

I have had 1/2" acrylic signs do the same thing with laminate glued to the face

 

[10sacer]

1/4" to 3/8" acrylic would be a better choice for the bkgd. I'm guessing between the laminate contact cement on maybe 1/4" thick PVC is reacting and causing curling / warping.
1/4" pvc is notorious for warping with any kind of heat, add chemical reaction and you got yourself a potato chip on the wall.
PVC has its place, but usually for short term and I would not recommend for outdoors

PVC used was 1/2" thick

 

[10sacer]

You can also paint PVC with an oil base paint but it needs to be primed both sides then coated with finish paint both sides. Although consistent heat from lighting is potential reason to PVC bending, as cwstevens suggests,. As far as I know, I've painted both sides of PVC panels and did prevent wrappage even while being out side. We know that PVC is an open cellular material that easily succumbs to moisture or heat in given environments, if not prepped appropriately, bending is invited.
One last note; I notice the panel is suspended of the wall so the sign panel has nothing to stabilize itself to remain in a flat position. That may be consider at this junction just as well. PVC should always have a flat backing to be stable and not bend or if it needs spacing in back then continue with painting both sides then after fully cured, apply the laminate finish. If the finish can be printed to mimic a wood appearance surface instead of a glued laminate which can be aggressive as the adhesive cures putting tension to thin panels of PVC to buckle then printing would be considered a direction to go.
Hope that helps and btw, that's a cool design!

Sign I did 4 years ago;
It shows the same principle (second surface halo-lighted) except constructed from ext. aluminum channeled letters. There was a night I had to replace a section and I could feel the heat of the LED - not extremely hot but warm. So I believe your sign is generating some level of heat that's something to take into consideration.
View attachment 182554

Looking back on it - we should have laminated the backside, as well. Then tension would have been mitigated due to a push/pull situation. I do think they leave the lights on 24/7 - which is not ideal, too.
We couldn't screw through the face to mount it direct to wall, so we used a cleat mount with a spacer at the bottom. This helps with heat dissipation from the lights, too - supposedly. We will not be flying our installers back to Vegas to install the new sign, so it has to be a cleat mount that they can just put on and plug in themselves, so will have to just be a change to the base material that won't warp.