We are about to purchase a Summa f1612 need advice

[Voyage Print]

We are about to purchase a Summa F1612 with all the bells and Whistles including the HF router, Drew is pretty amazing. So my question is we are a production print house. First, how do we hook this up to our work flow, we use Caldera 14 and from what I understand we need to get Grand Cut or whatever its called. Although Summa makes there own, but not sure whats best. Also, our traditional work flow existed with putting a job on a board with an order number that way we can keep track of 250 jobs on say for example one 8 x 4 expanded pvc board. How do we do this now with a cutting machine thats gonna conveyor belt these. Are we making a crazy purchase and ideas or suggestions from the group would be greatly appreciated. We just plopped down 3gs for the three phase convertor so I guess we are invested especially with a deposit. But sleepless nights here as there is so many questions I have from my fellow sign makers. Is the HF router really worth 20K mean. I would like any input from everyone except the Hulk guy he apparently had a very bad dealing with them.

 

[balstestrat]

You can get Grand cut or Prime center (more usage possibilities). Or if you want to do it manually you can do it in Illustrator/Corel with a plugin. But that's very manual.
Depends on how you want to do it, you can add a order number or what ever reference. Barcode for the cutter to find the job.

 

[Pauly]

250 jobs at once on a physical job board?
Might be time to job management software.

 

[CanuckSigns]

We've had a 1612 for about 1.5 years now, we use onyx, but I assume caldera is similar.

When you select the summa as a cutter in onyx, it automatically puts the barcode and crop marks in the file, when you load it on the cutter, it scans the barcode and pulls the correct file and starts cutting.

Now if you are nesting 250 jobs on a single board, you are going to run into issues where you will be spending longer sorting the cut outs then the machine takes to cut them, if you have a belt extension or an outfeed table you can be picking the cut ones while it's cutting the next section.

You don't need to purchase the barcode add on, but it makes running the machine so much easier.

The machine is great at what it does, but if you are running huge volumes, I would look at one of the more expensive machines.

As for the HF router, I don't think it's worth it at all, we have the standard router and it works fine for everything I've used it for, once you get beyond basic cutting, the software is the weak point, not the router!

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I have had my F1612 for about 3 years. I too use Caldera, just updated to v15. You can either create your files with reg marks in illustrator, then save a print file to Caldera and a cut file to GoProduce (Summa's program to run the cutter), or purchase the GrandCut add on for Caldera. For the first year or so, I just did everything manually, which wasn't that bad. The nice part about that is if you find something that needs to be changed after it's printed, you can just update your cut file and it will still all work likes its supposed to. I did purchase the GrandCut add on, even though it's like $1800. I do use that the most now, but still have some jobs that I setup the cut files manually.

If you get GrandCut, I actually prefer the older driver they have for Summa's older program, this will still work with GoProduce. It works better for me as I don't use the barcode scanner on my Summa (another $1800 add on from Summa). But if you do want to use that, you need to use the GoProduce driver in Caldera.

What are you going to be using the router for? I have the standard one and it has cut everything that I have tried. I think the HF Router WAY over priced in my opinion. It also limits you to metric sized bits, where on the standard router you can get imperial sized collets to have a lot more bit options. I even found a place that sells the standard AMB? (Kress) router and got a spare for like $350. Which has worked nice for bit changes and just to have as a backup.

 

[Voyage Print]

Hi and thats why I love this board!!! Well we were thinking we are gonna use the HF router for Acrylic as there seems to be a market whre if we go with the standard there is no way to cut that with the standard plus the general mood of this board is that the standard is simply ok, Voyageprint is not a traditional printing company, we do intricate cut outs on mostly expanded PVC and fabric those are are two main things we do. However, we do want to expand our markets. We are literally newbs but have a small following. We have literally been hand cutting expanded pvc for literally three years. Not shapes but literally intricate designs and cut outs. Hence for example we will print say for example ornaments which we can group about 250 on a 4 x 8 board and each has an order number. Which if these are cut we need to figure out a way to cut the board with an order number so that when the orders get processed we can keep track of whats what. I think the grand cut option would work but then again we are still running 14. I am still wondering how its gonna work to cut intricate designs. The problem for us is that you start dealing with sales people they will all tell you what is the best part of their machine. We definitely want to grow which is why we figured the summa would be great, but our tech guys, the one's who make our printer have a brand called TPS which is supposedly amazing. Maybe someone here can tell us whether the summa or this is the best option? They have a video.

mind you english language is not their first language so the announcer is just reading it

 

[Voyage Print]

ok thanks

I have had my F1612 for about 3 years. I too use Caldera, just updated to v15. You can either create your files with reg marks in illustrator, then save a print file to Caldera and a cut file to GoProduce (Summa's program to run the cutter), or purchase the GrandCut add on for Caldera. For the first year or so, I just did everything manually, which wasn't that bad. The nice part about that is if you find something that needs to be changed after it's printed, you can just update your cut file and it will still all work likes its supposed to. I did purchase the GrandCut add on, even though it's like $1800. I do use that the most now, but still have some jobs that I setup the cut files manually.

If you get GrandCut, I actually prefer the older driver they have for Summa's older program, this will still work with GoProduce. It works better for me as I don't use the barcode scanner on my Summa (another $1800 add on from Summa). But if you do want to use that, you need to use the GoProduce driver in Caldera.

What are you going to be using the router for? I have the standard one and it has cut everything that I have tried. I think the HF Router WAY over priced in my opinion. It also limits you to metric sized bits, where on the standard router you can get imperial sized collets to have a lot more bit options. I even found a place that sells the standard AMB? (Kress) router and got a spare for like $350. Which has worked nice for bit changes and just to have as a backup.

Thank you I have had literally sleepless nights over the extra 13K for this. I think in the end we need to learn from a smaller idea first and then upgrade in the future. Our first UV printer was a used 250GT OCE that we bought for 6 grand plus a flat bed truck. So Im all about saving the pennies. We are transfering the funds tomorrow we bought literally everything else except the HF as we agree it seems a great deal of money for the ability of just cutting acrylic. Which in our business is not the only game in town. Thanks Pro and all others

 

[ProColorGraphics]

ok thanks

Thank you I have had literally sleepless nights over the extra 13K for this. I think in the end we need to learn from a smaller idea first and then upgrade in the future. Our first UV printer was a used 250GT OCE that we bought for 6 grand plus a flat bed truck. So Im all about saving the pennies. We are transfering the funds tomorrow we bought literally everything else except the HF as we agree it seems a great deal of money for the ability of just cutting acrylic. Which in our business is not the only game in town. Thanks Pro and all others

The standard router can cut acrylic just fine.

 

[Voyage Print]

Procolor thank you! We have indeed taken your advice! standard router it is.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Procolor thank you! We have indeed taken your advice! standard router it is.

I have cut out 1/2" acrylic without any issues. I have some 3/4" I am going to cut for a personal project... if I ever get around to it. haha

Let me know if you have any questions, I am happy to help.

 

[CanuckSigns]

ok thanks

Thank you I have had literally sleepless nights over the extra 13K for this. I think in the end we need to learn from a smaller idea first and then upgrade in the future. Our first UV printer was a used 250GT OCE that we bought for 6 grand plus a flat bed truck. So Im all about saving the pennies. We are transfering the funds tomorrow we bought literally everything else except the HF as we agree it seems a great deal of money for the ability of just cutting acrylic. Which in our business is not the only game in town. Thanks Pro and all others

when you start cutting thicker acrylic and you are trying to get perfect edges, the biggest issue is vibration, and in my opinion the summa machine just isn't beefy enough compared to a regular CNC router to eliminate those vibrations, even with the HF router, plus since it's all conveyor belt based, you can't do things like cutting solid aluminum since you can't use a coolant mister. Our 1612 is great for what we use it for, but the router function always feels like an afterthought, it's great for shape cutting ACM, acrylic, PVC etc. but if I was routing stuff all day it would get tedious very quickly! Not to mention GoProduce is lacking in some very basic router functions such as creating lead in/lead out points, 3D carving, or assigning multiple tools to a single path, all of these were available on the last CNC router I ran over 15 years ago.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

when you start cutting thicker acrylic and you are trying to get perfect edges, the biggest issue is vibration, and in my opinion the summa machine just isn't beefy enough compared to a regular CNC router to eliminate those vibrations, even with the HF router, plus since it's all conveyor belt based, you can't do things like cutting solid aluminum since you can't use a coolant mister. Our 1612 is great for what we use it for, but the router function always feels like an afterthought, it's great for shape cutting ACM, acrylic, PVC etc. but if I was routing stuff all day it would get tedious very quickly! Not to mention GoProduce is lacking in some very basic router functions such as creating lead in/lead out points, 3D carving, or assigning multiple tools to a single path, all of these were available on the last CNC router I ran over 15 years ago.

I totally agree! It is a flatbed cutter that can route! Bugging Summa about my list of GoProduce requests, which 99% are for the router which many you mentioned, is a constant thing for me. There are some very basic router functions that they desperately need to add! One big one being the ability to add tabs/bridges!! Lead in/out is another huge one!

I am actually looking at getting a dedicated router for being able to do heavier duty routing jobs.

 

[Hotspur]

Summa are just launching an upgraded router to the standard one - more powerful and more balanced so it should give a better performance vs the current one.
It’s not expensive like the HF router and is backwards compatible.
Might be worth enquiring about this before ordering as I’m not sure if it replaces the current one or is offered in addition to it.


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[Peter Brady]

hi guys,

Is anyone using F1612 to cut wallpaper? If so, what type of tool are you using specifically?

Thank you,
Val

 

[balstestrat]

hi guys,

Is anyone using F1612 to cut wallpaper? If so, what type of tool are you using specifically?

Thank you,
Val

Double edge knife.

 

[CanuckSigns]

hi guys,

Is anyone using F1612 to cut wallpaper? If so, what type of tool are you using specifically?

Thank you,
Val

There are a few options, the heavy duty knife would be my top choice, followed by the double edge knife or the kiss cutting tool. Avoid the single edge knife, the tip snaps far too easily for any real production work.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

There are a few options, the heavy duty knife would be my top choice, followed by the double edge knife or the kiss cutting tool. Avoid the single edge knife, the tip snaps far too easily for any real production work.

I have found with the single edge knife, you have to raise the height in Axis Control as it sets it way too low. Once I did that, it has worked awesome! I still agree, the tips can snap easily. I try not to run it across the belts glue seam. I have the front extension on mine and not too impressed with they job they did glueing the seam.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I have found with the single edge knife, you have to raise the height in Axis Control as it sets it way too low. Once I did that, it has worked awesome! I still agree, the tips can snap easily. I try not to run it across the belts glue seam. I have the front extension on mine and not too impressed with they job they did glueing the seam.

there's nothing worse then running a large decal job with the single edge knife and walking away, only to come back and find the tip snapped off 25% through the job... ask me how I know...

 

[ProColorGraphics]

there's nothing worse then running a large decal job with the single edge knife and walking away, only to come back and find the tip snapped off 25% through the job... ask me how I know...

Have had that happen too. That sucks!!