Well on to the newest issue.

[altereddezignz]

So now i have a new issue. When printing a logo lets say a black circle with a white circle in the middle of it. The white is set to all 0 on cmyk or all all 255 on rgb. Now when i send this to print i get colored specs but looks more like black specks in the white areas. Now if i go back and delete the white are to where the is no color coding in that are and only the black outsides i get no white specs in this print area.
I have changed the wiper out, new cap, 24 hour head soak, cleaned everything very VERY good. Looks like misfires i am guessing.

Mutoh 1324
Does not matter the media.
Does not matter weather i create in Illustrator, Photoshop or directly in Flexi.

Also if i do a cmyk mix across the boars with white centers as like a box of all yellow, box all black, box all cyan, box all magenta everything seems to have some sort of specks but the cyan color itself but the white inside the cyan box has white.

This printer is about on my last nerve..

As anyone has read my questions we have completely taken apart the machine from top to bottom. New lines, New cap, New wiper, Checked vacuum on maint station, New encoder strip, New encoder, Cleaned head internally, new dampers and all new seals and caps, new ink cartrage needles, new ink line valves.. Pretty much just not a new head so i am hoping that is not bad now.
We were able to purchase very cheap in the beginning and still in the machine rather cheap but this is such a headache now.

We cannot get a true yellow, or any true color for that matter other than black b/c of the fine specks.

 

[Solventinkjet]

A picture would help in this situation.

Keep in mind that when you set the CMYK values in your design software, the RIP reinterprets these colors based on the profile and rendering intents. This means the 0 on all CMYK or 255 on the RGB could still be interpreted as having some color. The same goes for solid colors like yellow. 100% yellow in your design software may be interpreted as 100% yellow with 2% magenta in the RIP. That 2% will show up as small specs in the yellow. You can override the rip and enter your own values if you want it to be perfect yellow with no other colors. The profile is trying to make colors based on the white point, absorption and finish of the vinyl. In other words, it's trying to compensate for the fact that not all white vinyl is the same white, absorbs inks the same way or is matte or gloss. Otherwise, you can make some custom profiles to help as well.

 

[altereddezignz]

Hmm very interesting. Do you think this would cause the specks in the white area as well? I have never created my own profile as i do not have a spectrometer for the coloring.

Have any ideas on how i would override the colors. Really it would just be for the 4 process colors i would like to override and rest i would leave the same as it really is a mix of colors to create them.

I have tried temps from one extreme to the other with no change. That was the last thing i was told to try. Oracal 3165 ra - mutoh inks, temps at 41/43/50. Seamed if i went higher on the temps the material would have slight ripples in it and would rub every once in a while.

 

[player]

In your file, is it possible to make the white spots not white but with no colour so the background shows through white? I had this
years ago and it was what ^he says, the colour being seen is not a pure white, but is slightly "not white", so the rip is putting those black dots
in it to make it a little off white.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Have any ideas on how i would override the colors.

It should be next to the profile tab in your job settings. It's called color replacement I believe. You click on the color you want to change and it tells you the value the RIP thinks it should be. Then you enter your own value of 100% yellow and it will replace just what you selected and leave everything else alone.

 

[altereddezignz]

In your file, is it possible to make the white spots not white but with no colour so the background shows through white? I had this
years ago and it was what ^he says, the colour being seen is not a pure white, but is slightly "not white", so the rip is putting those black dots
in it to make it a little off white.

Yes i can delete all the white in the image but it becomes and issue and sometimes very difficult depending on the design. This and normally the same design is used for websites, stickers, Facebook, Instagram and so on and would be much easier to be able to leave the white white.

 

[player]

Yes i can delete all the white in the image but it becomes and issue and sometimes very difficult depending on the design. This and normally the same design is used for websites, stickers, Facebook, Instagram and so on and would be much easier to be able to leave the white white.

Then you have to try to find a white that stays white. Is Flexi your RIP? Can you use a spot colour for white? Can you check the white to see if it is 100% white? I believe you have a file/rip issue, and your printer is just doing what it is told.

 

[altereddezignz]

Then you have to try to find a white that stays white. Is Flexi your RIP? Can you use a spot colour for white? Can you check the white to see if it is 100% white? I believe you have a file/rip issue, and your printer is just doing what it is told.

Well the color setting for white is white but i guess not after rip. Where can i look to see what colors flexi is ripping the colors into?

 

[P Wagner]

So now i have a new issue. When printing a logo lets say a black circle with a white circle in the middle of it. The white is set to all 0 on cmyk or all all 255 on rgb. Now when i send this to print i get colored specs but looks more like black specks in the white areas. Now if i go back and delete the white are to where the is no color coding in that are and only the black outsides i get no white specs in this print area.
I have changed the wiper out, new cap, 24 hour head soak, cleaned everything very VERY good. Looks like misfires i am guessing.

Mutoh 1324
Does not matter the media.
Does not matter weather i create in Illustrator, Photoshop or directly in Flexi.

Also if i do a cmyk mix across the boars with white centers as like a box of all yellow, box all black, box all cyan, box all magenta everything seems to have some sort of specks but the cyan color itself but the white inside the cyan box has white.

This printer is about on my last nerve..

As anyone has read my questions we have completely taken apart the machine from top to bottom. New lines, New cap, New wiper, Checked vacuum on maint station, New encoder strip, New encoder, Cleaned head internally, new dampers and all new seals and caps, new ink cartrage needles, new ink line valves.. Pretty much just not a new head so i am hoping that is not bad now.
We were able to purchase very cheap in the beginning and still in the machine rather cheap but this is such a headache now.

We cannot get a true yellow, or any true color for that matter other than black b/c of the fine specks.

As has been mentioned in this thread, the good news is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your printer that can cause the problems that you are describing. Mutoh printers are halftone devices, and they are entirely controlled by the brains (RIP) when outputting job files. These issues are entirely caused by various settings in your RIP, and have nothing to do with the design file.

I would suggest that you look into gaining a more comprehensive understanding of RIP-based workflows, and what settings are available to control color. These settings include Input Profiles, Rendering Intents, Color Replacement, etc. These tools are present in most viable large-format RIPs, and I would suggest that you start by reading the User Manual or Help File for the RIP that you are using (which may be the SAi RIP embedded in FlexiSIGN-PRO).

All of these issues you mention here are completely resolvable, once you understand how to configure the workflow to achieve specific goals. One final thought: if you are willing to read, I will recommend the book "Real World Color Management' by Bruce Fraser. It makes this material (Color Managed Workflow Configuration) very approachable, while being comprehensive in scope. It is available on Amazon as a physical book, or as an e-book.

 

[altereddezignz]

As has been mentioned in this thread, the good news is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your printer that can cause the problems that you are describing. Mutoh printers are halftone devices, and they are entirely controlled by the brains (RIP) when outputting job files. These issues are entirely caused by various settings in your RIP, and have nothing to do with the design file.

I would suggest that you look into gaining a more comprehensive understanding of RIP-based workflows, and what settings are available to control color. These settings include Input Profiles, Rendering Intents, Color Replacement, etc. These tools are present in most viable large-format RIPs, and I would suggest that you start by reading the User Manual or Help File for the RIP that you are using (which may be the SAi RIP embedded in FlexiSIGN-PRO).

All of these issues you mention here are completely resolvable, once you understand how to configure the workflow to achieve specific goals. One final thought: if you are willing to read, I will recommend the book "Real World Color Management' by Bruce Fraser. It makes this material (Color Managed Workflow Configuration) very approachable, while being comprehensive in scope. It is available on Amazon as a physical book, or as an e-book.

Well i understand for the most part the color rendering and all that but i guess with flexi i am unable to find where to substitute color for color other than before it is ripped. I will read more and search tonight to see if i can find what i am looking for. Thanks

 

[P Wagner]

Well i understand for the most part the color rendering and all that but i guess with flexi i am unable to find where to substitute color for color other than before it is ripped. I will read more and search tonight to see if i can find what i am looking for. Thanks

The SAi RIP (the one in FlexiSIGN etc) is a functional RIP, but in my experience, it may benefit from configurations to get things dialed-in more than some of the competitive RIP products. You might want to look into getting a free trial evaluation of Onyx or Caldera to compare the output from those products. You might find that the initial 'out-of-the-box' user experience with them to be more satisfying.

 

[bob]

Change the rendering intent for everything except bitmaps to "No Color Correction" [set bitmaps to "Perceptual"] and white should once again become white as well as CMYK each being C, M, Y, and K respectively. You should figure out why that should be the case all by yourself as a learning experience.

 

[altereddezignz]

Change the rendering intent for everything except bitmaps to "No Color Correction" [set bitmaps to "Perceptual"] and white should once again become white as well as CMYK each being C, M, Y, and K respectively. You should figure out why that should be the case all by yourself as a learning experience.

"You should figure out why that should be the case all by yourself as a learning experience."

I am not sure i understand your statement. Are you meaning that after the change i should figure out on my own why this fixed the issue?
This has not always been an issue and has started over the last few weeks- month.
I am indeed trying to figure out what the issue is and what the cause and solution is for the fix, But i do not have an abundant amount of time. This is the reason i am consulting other to try and resolve the issue hoping someone else might have has this same or similar issue.

I have never changed any of the setting that your talking about. I do know where they are and how to change them.

 

[altereddezignz]

Did a little testing and finally found where to see what the rip is showing the output color to be. I created 1 document that had 4 3" circles with a 1.5" white cirlce in the middle. I set each of the outside colors as one each of the primary colors, yellow, cyan, magenta and black. I then printed one with the normal settings then i printed another with the color rendering set to no color correction here is the outcome.

Print 1 - Using default color correction. Images print corect color, Bright yellow, Pure magenta, Pure dark black, Bright magenta blue
input color black as rgb 0,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 62,68,56,60
input color cyan as cymk 100,0,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 70,0,6,0
input color magenta as cymk 0,100,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,87,15,0
input color yellow as cymk 0,0,100,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,5,67,0
input color white as cymk 0,0,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,0,0,0
I get specks in everything along with the white in the center

Print 2 - Using no color correction. I have no specs in colors and no specs in white but the colors look to print way to heavy and blue is a dark blue, Magenta is to dark and has fish eyes in iut like it to heavy and yellow looks a little dark and has fish eyes as it is to thick or heavy as well and black looks heavy
input color black as rgb 0,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,0,0,100
input color cyan as cymk 100,0,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 100,0,0,0
input color magenta as cymk 0,100,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,100,0,0
input color yellow as cymk 0,0,100,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,0,100,0
input color white as cymk 0,0,0,0. rendering color or color that rip sees it as - 0,0,0,0

Print 3 I mapped each color to read exactly what it should be, The 100% cmyk values for each color and the cyan looks darker than it should. Like a darker blue. Unless i have a complete misunderstanding of the cyan being a lighter color than i think it should be.

Still have a few specks in the white in all prints so guess i have a head issue? Could this also be the reason i get a darker magenta and cyan than what it should be?

 

[altereddezignz]

Tried one more thing. Did another print by thinking about the way the material and the profile worked together. It got me to thinking that maybe the 100 of the solid colors was to saturdated therefor making it to darl. So i went back to see where the rip was showing that it was sending to the device and i took out the odd color and left the solid color mix the same.
For instance. The softare showed the cyan to be 100,0,0,0, but it was being ripped as 70,0,6,0. So i took out the 6 and left the mix as 70,0,0,0. I did the same for the other colors and it have VERY VERY clear clean colors and no spec or very few specs in the white but no specs in the , yellow, cyan, or magenta.

I guess this will be different for everything that i print? Media wise.

 

[altereddezignz]

If i turn on pure hue for all colors i also get nice clean colors with no specks, but i was told to leave pure hue off as it modified the other colors if there was a mixture of colors printing?

 

[RG]

Try this. Do another print just like you did with Print 1, except this time before you send the file to the printer put a check next to "white" in the Color Settings\Rendering Intent\Pure Hue\Preserve Pure Hue window. By doing this I think you are telling the rip to use "no color correction" only on white. The other colors, CMYK, should print the same way they printed before. Just like you, I never use "no color correction" for my prints. That throws the colors off. By not using '"no color correction" my 1204 prints really good looking Pantone colors an I certainly don't want to mess that up. By the way, to print a really good tomato red, I use RGB (255,20,20) and always check RED in the Pure Hue window. Hope this helps you out. It works for me.

 

[altereddezignz]

So on the pure hue screen only select white in pure hue and leve all the other settings as default but change my mixture that the rip is sending to the device to remove the odd color as in the yellow or cyan i listed above?

 

[RG]

Yep, it's worth a try.

 

[altereddezignz]

ok i did that with changing my mix to remove the odd color added and i turned on the pure hue for the white and seemed to fix the issue. Now my black is horrible looking and i didnt change anything there. UGH... So sad haha