What is wrong with Seikos garbage support and garbage heads?

[LenXIII]

Incoming complaint/rant due to extended frustration.

So it all started 3 1/2 years ago. We purchased two brand new Seiko W54s from Proveer with 2 year warranty each. 6 months later proveer sells off to grimco. 12 months after than the first magenta head goes bad in seiko #1. Well to skip all of the horrible details and absolutely no assistance from Seiko the warranties were not honored because proveer no longer existed. Seiko basically said too bad...after numerous attempts to work something out with upper level of management.

So forget the horrible customer service we received along the way...the head itself went bad in a very strange way. It would print just fine with 100% nozzles firing then half the head would be out a minute later. A tech claimed it could and probably was the internal non replaceable damper causing the problem. At this point the printer only had about 6 months of use because we left them in boxes for the first year while building the company.

Ok so $2k later its running fine. 11 months goes by and Magenta head #2 goes bad in Seiko#1. SAME EXACT problem. Full nozzle firing then sporadic chunks of nozzles missing. Keep in mind during all head problem times all of the basic things were checked and replaced like caps/wipers/etc. So...$1800 this time and back in action.

10 months goes by and magenta head #3 goes out. Same problem. Lots of money. Fixed.

Guess what....8 months later and now we just lost that same magenta head in the same printer. The other 3 heads still have 100% nozzles after all these years. Seiko #1 btw went through a mainboard and a magenta head as well during this time.

So what's the deal guys. I hear the same things from all the techs I talk to that Seikos magenta head uses higher voltages than the others and the ink has the thickest viscosity etc. But I have no recourse...these heads are being put in privately with a certified tech but I get no warranty. I guess it's time to sell these darn printers.

Final comments:
We also owed an HP10000 years back until one day a client of mine is talking to HP at SGIA and they told him they are phasing out a big line of printers to get ready for their latex and such. A week later our ink costs doubled...literally...and the only reason was because HP wanted to stop producing the ink and wanted people to upgrade. This is total ******** practice.

 

[premiercolour]

Incoming complaint/rant due to extended frustration.

So it all started 3 1/2 years ago. We purchased two brand new Seiko W54s from Proveer with 2 year warranty each. 6 months later proveer sells off to grimco. 12 months after than the first magenta head goes bad in seiko #1. Well to skip all of the horrible details and absolutely no assistance from Seiko the warranties were not honored because proveer no longer existed. Seiko basically said too bad...after numerous attempts to work something out with upper level of management.

So forget the horrible customer service we received along the way...the head itself went bad in a very strange way. It would print just fine with 100% nozzles firing then half the head would be out a minute later. A tech claimed it could and probably was the internal non replaceable damper causing the problem. At this point the printer only had about 6 months of use because we left them in boxes for the first year while building the company.

Ok so $2k later its running fine. 11 months goes by and Magenta head #2 goes bad in Seiko#1. SAME EXACT problem. Full nozzle firing then sporadic chunks of nozzles missing. Keep in mind during all head problem times all of the basic things were checked and replaced like caps/wipers/etc. So...$1800 this time and back in action.

10 months goes by and magenta head #3 goes out. Same problem. Lots of money. Fixed.

Guess what....8 months later and now we just lost that same magenta head in the same printer. The other 3 heads still have 100% nozzles after all these years. Seiko #1 btw went through a mainboard and a magenta head as well during this time.

So what's the deal guys. I hear the same things from all the techs I talk to that Seikos magenta head uses higher voltages than the others and the ink has the thickest viscosity etc. But I have no recourse...these heads are being put in privately with a certified tech but I get no warranty. I guess it's time to sell these darn printers.

Final comments:
We also owed an HP10000 years back until one day a client of mine is talking to HP at SGIA and they told him they are phasing out a big line of printers to get ready for their latex and such. A week later our ink costs doubled...literally...and the only reason was because HP wanted to stop producing the ink and wanted people to upgrade. This is total ******** practice.

Thanks for the heads up on the Seiko and bad practice with ink price on 10000. Totally useful information!

 

[bilge]

how much?
If you have 2 exact same model printers, exchange/swap mainboards and see. If the problem still persists in the seiko #1 then replace subtank and pump. If the problem appears in seiko #2 then replace the board. Seiko printheads should last at least 3 years.
I think the magenta subtank in seiko#1 has buildup.

 

[LenXIII]

how much?
If you have 2 exact same model printers, exchange/swap mainboards and see. If the problem still persists in the seiko #1 then replace subtank and pump. If the problem appears in seiko #2 then replace the board. Seiko printheads should last at least 3 years.
I think the magenta subtank in seiko#1 has buildup.

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. As far as I know the subtank was never replaced with any of the heads. If it was the same tank that caused the problem wouldn't it have caused the new heads to go bad much sooner than a year?

Just so you know the details here is what the head was doing. I am a very good trouble shooter, though not an expert by any means, and I can't understand what sort of problem could cause these issues other than malfunctioning electronics someone along the chain from mobo to head or the head itself. Head prints fine, 100% nozzles, then randomly color drops out and a test pattern shows huge blocks of the head missing. Do another test print without doing a cleaning and that pattern sometimes changes sometimes remains the same. Do a small cleaning 100% nozzles come back, hit print and color is already gone. Sometimes the head nozzles test at 100% but don't print, sometimes backwards of that. Nozzle pattern goes randomly all over the place. Here's the thing, the nozzles that aren't firing are NOT clogged. I also don't think its an ink starvation issue or even a leaky damper like he said on the first replacement. I look forward to suggestions, as these head replacements are costly, but I just cannot figure it out. My tech simply says its the head and it needs replaced and upon replacement the printer works properly with zero issues. So this does lead me to believe its the electronics in the head itself going bad or maybe the built in damper?

More comments for people searching for Seiko W54S problems:
Another VERY strange issue I have found with these printers is the ink bag chips. Sometimes a bad chip can lead to all sorts of issues that might end up making you replace mainboards and heads without realizing theres nothing wrong with the printer. On more than 3 occasions a bad chip has led to sporadic and wild ink nozzle problems from an entire head not printing to similar issues that keep happening to our magenta. Removing and replacing these bad ink chips would bring the machine back to 100%. What's even stranger is it isn't color specific. One time a yellow ink change caused our Cyan head to not fire. We rebooted everything reseating everything trouble shot it for 2 days...upon replacing the yellow ink it started working. Put the old ink back in and the problems came back.

 

[LenXIII]

how much?
If you have 2 exact same model printers, exchange/swap mainboards and see. If the problem still persists in the seiko #1 then replace subtank and pump. If the problem appears in seiko #2 then replace the board. Seiko printheads should last at least 3 years.
I think the magenta subtank in seiko#1 has buildup.

Also, agree that heads should last 3 years. Both of our seikos have original heads in CYK and all 3 heads in both printers have 100% nozzles. They are amazing that we haven't lost a single nozzle in the 6 heads after 3-4 years. However, magenta heads seem to go bad fast. I think their issue is isolated to their magenta heads, which my tech has confirmed with hundreds of magenta head replacements in these machines. One of his customers went through 2 magentas in 6 months.

 

[bilge]

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. As far as I know the subtank was never replaced with any of the heads. If it was the same tank that caused the problem wouldn't it have caused the new heads to go bad much sooner than a year?

Just so you know the details here is what the head was doing. I am a very good trouble shooter, though not an expert by any means, and I can't understand what sort of problem could cause these issues other than malfunctioning electronics someone along the chain from mobo to head or the head itself. Head prints fine, 100% nozzles, then randomly color drops out and a test pattern shows huge blocks of the head missing. Do another test print without doing a cleaning and that pattern sometimes changes sometimes remains the same. Do a small cleaning 100% nozzles come back, hit print and color is already gone. Sometimes the head nozzles test at 100% but don't print, sometimes backwards of that. Nozzle pattern goes randomly all over the place. Here's the thing, the nozzles that aren't firing are NOT clogged. I also don't think its an ink starvation issue or even a leaky damper like he said on the first replacement. I look forward to suggestions, as these head replacements are costly, but I just cannot figure it out. My tech simply says its the head and it needs replaced and upon replacement the printer works properly with zero issues. So this does lead me to believe its the electronics in the head itself going bad or maybe the built in damper?

More comments for people searching for Seiko W54S problems:
Another VERY strange issue I have found with these printers is the ink bag chips. Sometimes a bad chip can lead to all sorts of issues that might end up making you replace mainboards and heads without realizing theres nothing wrong with the printer. On more than 3 occasions a bad chip has led to sporadic and wild ink nozzle problems from an entire head not printing to similar issues that keep happening to our magenta. Removing and replacing these bad ink chips would bring the machine back to 100%. What's even stranger is it isn't color specific. One time a yellow ink change caused our Cyan head to not fire. We rebooted everything reseating everything trouble shot it for 2 days...upon replacing the yellow ink it started working. Put the old ink back in and the problems came back.

Honestly, I did not even see this printer. But I’ve had chinese 126” printer with Seiko 512 printheads for over 6 years. Last year when I sold my 2 Rolands I was about to buying Seiko M64 and collected bit of information about these printers. But I gave up because there is no aftermarket ink and CISS for CP M64s.
It is not a secret that M inks for Seiko W and H series have serious problem. A russian tech wrote that he serviced many of these printers all have metal like particles built in Magenta sub tank and it causes the printhead clog and adviced to clean the subtank in every 6 months if possible replace. Even OKI Russia rep said that they provide CISS and several aftermarket inks for choice to customers of W series.
If you assume there would be some electrical issue, then as I suggested you to swap boards. Seiko printheads voltage setting is crutial. When you swap boards it will take a lot of time you will need to make printhead calibration all over again. However you will find the problem without buying unnecessary parts.
You want to use only OEM ink then it’s better to sell your printers (IMO) to whom willing to use aftermarket ink or trade in for your HP latex.
Just an info for someone who interested in :
Oki Russia rep also said the reason why Seiko failed and sold it to OKI,
1. Their printers built to last (no replacement parts sales)
2. Extensive protection against 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party ink. (no sales in emerging markets)
3. Limited number of distributors (lack of service and promotion)

 

[tbullo]

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. As far as I know the subtank was never replaced with any of the heads. If it was the same tank that caused the problem wouldn't it have caused the new heads to go bad much sooner than a year?

Just so you know the details here is what the head was doing. I am a very good trouble shooter, though not an expert by any means, and I can't understand what sort of problem could cause these issues other than malfunctioning electronics someone along the chain from mobo to head or the head itself. Head prints fine, 100% nozzles, then randomly color drops out and a test pattern shows huge blocks of the head missing. Do another test print without doing a cleaning and that pattern sometimes changes sometimes remains the same. Do a small cleaning 100% nozzles come back, hit print and color is already gone. Sometimes the head nozzles test at 100% but don't print, sometimes backwards of that. Nozzle pattern goes randomly all over the place. Here's the thing, the nozzles that aren't firing are NOT clogged. I also don't think its an ink starvation issue or even a leaky damper like he said on the first replacement. I look forward to suggestions, as these head replacements are costly, but I just cannot figure it out. My tech simply says its the head and it needs replaced and upon replacement the printer works properly with zero issues. So this does lead me to believe its the electronics in the head itself going bad or maybe the built in damper?

More comments for people searching for Seiko W54S problems:
Another VERY strange issue I have found with these printers is the ink bag chips. Sometimes a bad chip can lead to all sorts of issues that might end up making you replace mainboards and heads without realizing theres nothing wrong with the printer. On more than 3 occasions a bad chip has led to sporadic and wild ink nozzle problems from an entire head not printing to similar issues that keep happening to our magenta. Removing and replacing these bad ink chips would bring the machine back to 100%. What's even stranger is it isn't color specific. One time a yellow ink change caused our Cyan head to not fire. We rebooted everything reseating everything trouble shot it for 2 days...upon replacing the yellow ink it started working. Put the old ink back in and the problems came back.

We have had chip problem too. On 3 occasions we have had the bag run dry without the printer ever calling for replacement. Luckily ever since the first time I watch it close when level reads LOW. On the last occasion half the print test on one head was missing. Replaced ink did maintenance and it came back. Now the ink level low light on printer is flashing but all inks are above 50%. Contacted my vendor but haven't heard back yet. This is with my W-64S. Other then that, works great.

 

[d fleming]

My experience was the magenta ink was the problem. Once I switched to nazdar inkset instead of oem problem solved itself. May not be your issue but it was mine.