What print media are you using for vehicle graphics?

[ExecuPrintGS]

For the longest time we have used oracal 3651 with 210 lam for vehicle graphics, about 1.5 years ago a rep from one of our suppliers suggested we switch to 3Mij35c as a comparable product, we switched and had a few failures within months. So we switched right back to the 3651, now this winter i have had 4 jobs that i did within the last year return with graphics curling.
I guess I'm curious what everyone on here is using for digitally printed/ laminated graphics, contour cut to be applied to vehicles (not wraps).
What do you guys use day in and day out? What is your "go to".
As far as prep, we use a de-greaser on any areas graphics will be applied followed by 70%IPA (and in the winter ill clean it twice) let the vehicle rest for a bit after cleaning then apply.

Any advice or words of wisdom you guys can send my way, these failures are no only costly but frustrating.
Any advice on what media (print and lam) you guys would suggest along with any prep advice i may be falling short on, is greatly appreciated.

Printers are roland vp540 and mimaki cjv-30 130

Thanks in advance

 

[bob]

Assuming for the nonce that this isn't some sort of bizarre joke, If you looked up 'media inappropriate for vehicles' you'd find, in large bold text, 'Calendared'.

You put cast media on vehicles.Always. If your work is 'curling' as you describe, I'd give good odds that these jobs featured a full bleed. Something you should approach as if it were a pi$$ed off cobra when using cast media and never with calendared.

If Oracal is your thing, try 3751[RA] with 290 laminate. If it's some other brand that gets you off, have at it. Just don't use calendared no matter who made it. Moreover, if you can possibly avoid them, eschew full bleeds.

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

Sadly, no joke here.
What is it exactly about full bleed that makes things go (for lack of a better term) "wonky" on graphics?
Now that you say it, all of these were full bleed.

 

[tomence]

Simply put, you are using the wrong media. As suggested try using cast all the time when doing vehicles.

 

[TXFB.INS]

first thing is you are using a CALENDARED vinyl. BIG NO NO, 3751 is the suggested cast. 3551 is a calendared but Oracal lists it as vehicle grade as long as no/minimal curves
NEVER EVER use ij35 of vehicles, 3M's budget is the ij40 they say can be used on flat surfaces.


if you have curling issues, then you may want to add a white border on the designs as full bleeds do curl more often then white borders.

are you out gassing the full 24 hours before laminating?

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

Simply put, you are using the wrong media. As suggested try using cast all the time when doing vehicles.

first thing is you are using a CALENDARED vinyl. BIG NO NO, 3751 is the suggested cast. 3551 is a calendared but Oracal lists it as vehicle grade as long as no/minimal curves
NEVER EVER use ij35 of vehicles, 3M's budget is the ij40 they say can be used on flat surfaces.


if you have curling issues, then you may want to add a white border on the designs as full bleeds do curl more often then white borders.

are you out gassing the full 24 hours before laminating?

I let all prints out gas 24-48 hours depending on how busy we are in the shop, so im not so much worried about that.

My big question is why do sales reps at multiple companies tell us to use 3651 and ij35c if its not intended for that?
asfar as the 3551 what do they justify as no/ minimal curves? Pretty much every vehicle out there has a slight curve on the door the word "minimal" is a subjective term.
So are you telling me to use 3751 on all vehicle graphics even if it is just full color door lettering and not a wrap?

again, appreciate the advice, i will take all the info and advice gathered to my boss.

 

[TXFB.INS]

http://www.orafol.com/9872

highly suggest saving/bookmarking this chart as quick reference guide.


The reason that sales reps suggest the other material is cost, it is easier for them to get companies to buy the cheaper material than it is for the correct.
another reason is the number of "hacks" will not bother to use the right material and sales reps will tell them really anything for the sale

 

[dmfahie]

There may be a few things here... we use much of the ij40c. .. similar to the ij35c... we use a cast laminate (8519). Printing with a full bleed is not an issue... As long as you print it and let it cure correctly.
1) No more then 220% ink coverage. If you use the vendor profiles... you don't know what your getting... have your printer professionally profiled.

2) Very important. .. many don't do this... let it cure for 24 to 36 he's before lam.

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

http://www.orafol.com/9872

highly suggest saving/bookmarking this chart as quick reference guide.


The reason that sales reps suggest the other material is cost, it is easier for them to get companies to buy the cheaper material than it is for the correct.
another reason is the number of "hacks" will not bother to use the right material and sales reps will tell them really anything for the sale

Thank you for that link, that was helpful.
The fact that sales reps do this is disgusting to me...

 

[acothran]

As a general rule, find a supplier with a sales rep that tells the truth more than they lie. It may be hard, but you can find one and once you do, develop a relationship with that person. You can also check literature from manufacturers. Many will say "NOT FOR VEHICLE/FLEET USE". I always tell a client the vinyl used on their vehicle and I never want them to find a spec sheet online, come back to me and say, "why did you use XXXXX media on my van when is says not for vehicle use?" If you aren't sure about a subjective term like, moderate curve, always overshoot it and use a vinyl recommended for complex curves, just to be safe. As for solid color vinyl lettering on a door, use Oracal 751 or 3M 7125 instead of printing. You'll get much better colors and better longevity.

-Allen

 

[MrSalumi]

Yeah, you are just using the wrong material. Cast always on vehicles. Think of the money that you would be saving on all the failures if none of them had failed because you used the right material. From now on just use the right stuff and let it outgas properly and you should be fine.

 

[neil_se]

I've been using 2-4 rolls per month of Avery MPI 2923 with DOL2000 laminate since it's release a couple of years ago. Outdoor signs, flat and simple vehicle curves, almost always full bleed, and 0 issues.

 

[Lauren]

Commenting on the "full bleed part" of the conversation, I found that a big factor in whether the graphics curled up on the edges was how long I waited between laminating and plotting. I ran a few tests on printed calendared vinyl that had cured for over a month. When I plotted the print only 30-60 minutes after lamination, the graphics curled up a lot. When I waited a little over 2 hours, the curling was much less substantial, but it did still happen. When we wait 24 hours between laminating and plotting, we have no curling. We do use heat when laminating, so if you are also laminating with heat too, maybe that has something to do with your issue.

 

[biggmann]

We use Avery 1005EZ with the DOL1360 lam. I like the film its easy to re position and if installed properly we never had a return. The film gets a bad wrap fro printing and we have had our issue in the past but for the past couple years its been really good.

 

[BigfishDM]

It's crazy that anyone uses Avery after the nightmare they created for so many shops, they costed thousands of dollars to so many companies it's truly amazing they had the guts to sell this stuff again. I truly hope there product works for everyone using it.

I sell a pretty good 2 Mil Cast Air Release and offer a combo of the vinyl and 2 mil cast lam for $799 for 2 rolls of 54x150 it's made by Ritrama

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Is that $799 per set if you by 2 sets or is it $799 for a set regardless of how many you order?

 

[SIGNTIME]

never had a problem with 3751 or 3551 and before 37, 3951 we do alot of full bleed graphics and try to wait 24hr before lam.

 

[knucklehead]

Last printed vehicle graphics I did, was PhotoTex.

 

[BigfishDM]

Is that $799 per set if you by 2 sets or is it $799 for a set regardless of how many you order?

Its $799 for 1 set that includes 1 54"x150' Cast 2 Mil Air Release and 1 54"x150' 2 Mil Cast UV Lam