Which Vinyl for outdoor Backlit Polycarbonate/Acrylic sign?

[mjohnsonsa]

I am making a backlit outdoor sign for a Christmas event with printed vinyl adhered to it. Here are my questions:

1. What plastic do you guys recommend? I know acrylic works better with vinyl but it is outdoors so I was leaning polycarbonate... thoughts?
2. To avoid seeing the LED "hot spots" should the plastic be white or clear?
3. What thickness of plastic?
4. What vinyl do you guys recommend?
5. Should the vinyl be clear or translucent?
6. What thickness of vinyl?

I have experimented with .177 White Polycarbonate and 4mil UV clear vinyl. The adhesion seems okay but there are bubbles I cannot get out and I fear they will get worse if the poly starts to outgas.

Would like to hear recommendations from the rest of the community as I may need to make several more of these signs since the event it outdoors at night and it is easy to make these backlit signs then to uplight standard printed signs. Thanks!

Matt

 

[hybriddesign]

Hi Matt,

There are bunch of threads already on the forum that have a ton of info. I know as I had the same questions…

There are special vinyls for this purpose and almost every manufacturer makes one. Generally you’d do white plexi and then depending on your preference a lot of people print a mirrored clear layer which goes on the back and then on the you add your normally printed vinyl. This was at night the lighting does blow out the colors.

There are a bunch of other options based on your printer as well.

For short term signs your method is fine and there are even some printable diffused polycarbonate films specifically for this

 

[hybriddesign]

btw wet mount your vinyl with soap and water if you don’t have a laminator

 

[Gino]

What is the finished size and how far away will people be looking at it ??
Who is building the cabinet ?? They'll know the thickness needed.

 

[mjohnsonsa]

What is the finished size and how far away will people be looking at it ??
Who is building the cabinet ?? They'll know the thickness needed.

Finished size is about 48" x 48". I am building the cabinet. My main concern is the materials and whether it would be better to go clear or translucent for the vinyl and if I should be using acrylic or polycarb.

 

[Gino]

Reason I asked is, if this is outside, acrylic will be fine. Poly would be overkill at this small size. I'd use white translucent and double strike. Using LEDs, the can should be about 7" deep to prevent hot spots.

Real question is..... are you licensed to make electric backlits ??

 

[mjohnsonsa]

Reason I asked is, if this is outside, acrylic will be fine. Poly would be overkill at this small size. I'd use white translucent and double strike. Using LEDs, the can should be about 7" deep to prevent hot spots.

Real question is..... are you licensed to make electric backlits ??

Okay thanks for the feedback. As for the license I didn't know you needed a license to make backlit signs! regardless it is an outdoor road sign for a Christmas light drive thru event and powered with DC LED lights.

 

[Gino]

It was kinda evident from your OP. You need to be licensed to build the cabinet, then it hasta be UL stamped. It also needs to be installed by a licensed company. However, this would all be figured out when you apply for the permit you need to do this whole project. Regardless of where the sign is gonna go, the rules and proper procedure need to be followed. Oh yeah, not to mention all electric signs need signed and seal stamped engineer drawings accompanied with the permit approval. Are you ready or experienced for all this ?? If not, you are only allowed to decorate a face, but technically, not even put it in, if it's in the air.

 

[mjohnsonsa]

It was kinda evident from your OP. You need to be licensed to build the cabinet, then it hasta be UL stamped. It also needs to be installed by a licensed company. However, this would all be figured out when you apply for the permit you need to do this whole project. Regardless of where the sign is gonna go, the rules and proper procedure need to be followed. Oh yeah, not to mention all electric signs need signed and seal stamped engineer drawings accompanied with the permit approval. Are you ready or experienced for all this ?? If not, you are only allowed to decorate a face, but technically, not even put it in, if it's in the air.

Thanks. I will look into all that. Nobody has ever mentioned any of that when talking to the city permitting people; maybe because it is a temporary event? portable sign? DC powered? etc. regardless I will ask about it, don't want to break any laws

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

In Texas.. and in San Antonio, if the sign has a standard outlet plug then you don't need an electrical license.. typically for indoor signs. Not sure the permit would apply if this is a portable sign you are handing over to a client. It would be on them to display it in accordance with city rules.

 

[Gino]

Don't you need to be licensed to build it with UL standards and stamped ?? You can't buy a single lighting assembly anywhere without UL stamps on it.

Edit : indoor or outdoor

 

[DL Signs]

Whether it's going in your yard, or on a business, signs are regulated in every city, town, village, and they're all different. Some are more lenient than others, but always best to make sure you're good to go, and have any permits or inspections that may be required.

Especially true for lighted exterior signs that could violate ordinances by being placed in a way or a brightness where they're a nuisance, or distract motorists & pedestrians, not be properly constructed & mounted so they don't fall/ blow away and cause property damage or injury, properly wired so they don't pose an electrocution or fire risk, obstruct view of traffic signs, or addresses for emergency service responders, etc, etc... These are some of the reasons they're regulated, all the things that someone doesn't think of when they just want to simply put a sign up. One thing that is consistent from city to city is they love fining people for violating ordinances

 

[signheremd]

As far as materials:
1. Acrylic for 4x4, polycarbonate for large faces. Polycarbonate needs to be off-gassed for 24-48 hours before applying vinyl to the faces - that means pulling the masking off 24-48 hours before lettering.
2. Translucent vinyl would be appropriate, and was designed for this. You can use cast vinyl - many colors light up well - but it does not light up as well as translucent. Calendared vinyl, besides shorter lifespan, often looks uneven when backlit.
3. I would suggest the acrylic or polycarbonate be white - like a 7328 White as this one disperses light nicely.
4. 3/16" is a good thickness for the acrylic.
5. You can apply wet using Right On or similar product to avoid bubbles. Squeegee well. Best to apply with the acrylic out of the box and on a table on floor so it has firm support whilst you squeegee the vinyl. Your box should be made to have sides removed for servicing the lights.
6. If printing the faces, use a white translucent vinyl and check the lighted color (always a good idea as lighted vs not lighted even translucent vinyls can change color) before printing the face. There are a variety of tricks you can employ to get the finished result you want. You can print using double ink. You can print two and apply them over top of each other (printed color looks normal in day and darkens up at night). You can print once on clear and once on translucent white - applying clear first and white over top, or printing only certain colors on clear and putting that over top of the white translucent.

Hope that helps.