1st time Questions

[laneygraphics]

Hello, I'd like to start off with a warning of newbie questions, and long winded description, just want to give as much info as i can. I've done quite a few signs, but this one is completely new to me. the majority of signs we have done were refacing existing signs, redoing inserts, or smaller aluminum signs hung on lower building spots mounted with standard screws. Have a customer rebranding and needs some signage on this building, they had a lighted sign box and no longer want that style, so the electrical and everything will be removed before installing new signs. They are wanting more basic, aluminum panel, black with white text/logo. size is approximately 13ft long and 2.5 to 3 ft tall. I am making a site visit in the next day or 2 to get exact dimensions, but wanted to see what else I need to check when I am there. Building seems to be stucco or some kind of textured finish where the sign will be placed. If we go with 2 acm panels split somewhere in the middle, what is the best method for hanging these? is it pads with studs on the back pinned into the building? some kind of French cleat system to hang them? Threaded anchors into building then sign bolted on? Also for materials I've really only used acm panels, alumilite or regular aluminum sheets in the past. Is a 6mm acm panel appropriate or is there a better option? Again sorry for so many questions, have read just about every post in this sub and initial thoughts are to pin it with pads and adhesive, but have not done that before and I'm not sure on what kind of weight can be supported via that system. Thanks for any help with my questions, and if there is anything else I need to check while on site please let me know.

 

[Scotchbrite]

One of the big things we run into is what I call "false fronts". Basically there is just foam with the EFIS stucco. Ideally there should be some sort of wood backing so that you can screw into that. You should try to see if you can get access to see the back side of that wall. Usually there's a drop ceiling so you can use a ladder to raise a panel and get a look at the back of the wall. There is some chance that is a parapet wall which will mean you have no way to see what is behind the EFIS.

 

[laneygraphics]

I'd swing this down to 12' to fit on my table if they wanted a seamless face. (my sales guys never think of the little things like this, can be a massive cost difference)
Do they want individually cut elements, one large panel with graphics, or just fully unknown at this point?
Individual elements would work fine with studs and pads, may need to tape the letters in position until the lexel/silicone sets up.
For a panel, you'll want to figure out what is behind the foam. You can do this by picking around the electrical to see if the hole is big enough to see through, or just running a screw into the wall, or climbing up into the ceiling. Typically you'll find plywood decking, in which case properly sized wood screws and touch up paint will do fine. For a screwless install, french cleats would work fine.
6mm is really just heavier than 3mm for a minimal increase in depth. I don't typically use 6mm unless I'm replacing a plastic face with a solid one, and 3mm would slap around inside the frame too much.

Yes I agree 12 ft might be better, honestly that's just what they told me, I think they would like to cover the worn area left by removing the old box. They have mentioned a flat panel, I guess 3mm would work since no real wind load after mounting. I think they prefer no fasteners to be seen, but not 100 percent sure yet as we haven't had a face to face meeting yet. If we go French cleat what materials should I use for best results, acrylic that I can bond to the aluminum? or something better? I will know more about the construction in a day or 2 when I get out there, I will check and see if I can access the back side or not, thank you!

 

[laneygraphics]

One of the big things we run into is what I call "false fronts". Basically there is just foam with the EFIS stucco. Ideally there should be some sort of wood backing so that you can screw into that. You should try to see if you can get access to see the back side of that wall. Usually there's a drop ceiling so you can use a ladder to raise a panel and get a look at the back of the wall. There is some chance that is a parapet wall which will mean you have no way to see what is behind the EFIS.

So if it is indeed just foam with a plywood backer under there somewhere, what's the best route for mounting? just long enough screws to reach, or will I have to do some kind of allthread through it all and nuts on both sides to mount to? or long studs and lexel?

 

[laneygraphics]

That looks great, I will see if they have a preference of standoff or more flush. Do you typically just use level or something similar to attach the sign side of cleat?

 

[Billct2]

We try not to do flat signs for a permanent business sign. I would do 3mm ACM on a 1"x1" aluminum tube frame with a raised aluminum molding. Not a lot more work but looks way more substantial.
Then it can be installed with brackets.

 

[laneygraphics]

That would also work well, ill see what their plans are, this will be a real estate team, I know they have switched brokers a couple times in the last few years so i don't know how permanent they would like. when you do the frame, how are you attaching the sign face to the tube frame? just bolting through or some kind of bracket to clamp around the 1x1?