35' RV Full Wrap Install Time

[Kemble]

We are seriously struggling with install times on large jobs. We quoted 80 hour install time and we are currently on hour 119 with 2 panels on 1 side and 1 panel on the other side left to go. I can't babysit them and I found out after both sides had 2 panels installed they never even dry fit the entire side before they started installing which resulted in a full removal and reprint of 2 panels on one side due to lining up issues. I'm convinced my installers are just not experienced enough and/or not motivated enough to care. They have zero sense of urgency and I'm seriously considering cleaning house. I have 5 installers, our least experienced installer is at $21 and our most experienced installer is at $28 who wants $35 but has severe quality issues: multiple reprints, overstretching causing ink fade, piss poor rivet conforming, trimming panel edges resulting in cutting the under panel, just poor quality all around.

I'm seeking some advice from you guys on any feedback you might have. What advice/tips can I do to instill a sense of urgency and improve quality with my team? Am I not paying them enough? What is market vehicle installer hourly range? I'm not opposed to sending any of my installers to 3M's install class (they all said they would like to take it) but none of them have shown me any commitment/dedication that they care enough to appreciate it and/or even want to stay with the company after they take it. I would feel like they would want to take the class then go work somewhere else.

I've only been the Manager here now for 2 months, the longest tenure person is 8 months. I'm doing the best I can with the team I was given. The environment is not toxic, I hear great things about the workplace all the time from my 1 on 1's with everyone. But what I'm seeing vs what I am being told are different.

 

[unclebun]

Who is watching them and teaching them as they work? Sounds like you have a bunch on inexperienced employees who have never had hands-on instruction and supervision while doing a job. Ten days and they still don't have it wrapped? Are they spending all their time on smoke breaks (with that other plant)?

 

[damonCA21]

Send the best two on the installers course and then make them supervisors for the rest of the team on jobs. It sounds like none of them really know what they are doing, and nobody is in charge to crack the whip. Keep their basic pay but give them performance related bonuses for getting a job done properly in the time given. The supervisors can also do on the job training for the rest of the fitters.


Investing time and money in staff will make more money for your business. Don't expect them to be motivated if they have no incentive to be.

 

[jfiscus]

3 guys, 3 days, should be complete with EXPERIENCD, COMPETENT installers.
I would say that ANY installer with under 8 months under their belt is not that experienced, and RVs like this are not easy installs.
At this point you come back to the age-old saying "good, fast, cheap - pick TWO".

FWIW, pay to them sounds a bit above average if they all came on board completely inexperienced, but cost of living may be higher in your area. This sounds more like the pay they should receive after another year of experience, and only an install lead with multiple years of experience should get around what he is asking.

The only real way to incentivize them that I can think of would be to ask their guess as to hours to install before you quote and compare it to your guess. And then, offer an incentive to beat that number, with a different incentive at different points? Or go to a different pay scale kind of like a mechanic shop where an alternator replacement is supposed to take/pay 5 hours, but an experienced mechanic can do it in 3, but get paid for the 5? I don't know of any shops that do it that way though, just contract installers, as it is hard to get a "steady" income that way.

 

[jfiscus]

Also, you have to determine, for each individual employee, where the problem with speed comes from - lack of experience, or lack of motivation. If they're motivated and really trying/doing their best, then they're worth training. If they're just "not motivated" it is probably best to part ways with them asap. I'd say the best way to figure that out would be to go out and work alongside each of them.

 

[SightLine]

Agree with jfiscus....
We wrap 40' city buses with 2 very experienced (20+ years each) guys in 2 days no problem and have done 40' RV's (actually mammography coaches) in 3. Those are a bit more time consuming working around all the obstacles and cutting everything out but with 3 or 4 guys that should certainly take no more than 4 days.
They are either very inexperienced, dont care, or are taking advantage of you burning the clock.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Clean house, you can't change people. Start with the worst one and go from there, sometimes that's enough of a shock to motivate the others to do their job.
As far as it being a good workplace to them, of course it is. They can fuck off all day, slow boat the jobs, screw stuff up and get paid top dollar to do it. I had this issue here a long time ago and I canned the top guy first, the ringleader so to speak. After that, the shop turned around bigly.

 

[Tracy Davis]

Also, you have to determine, for each individual employee, where the problem with speed comes from - lack of experience, or lack of motivation. If they're motivated and really trying/doing their best, then they're worth training. If they're just "not motivated" it is probably best to part ways with them asap. I'd say the best way to figure that out would be to go out and work alongside each of them.

Send the best 2 for training and get rid of any who are not willing to learn. Sounds like they r being paid too well for their experience

 

[netsol]

i would say, the problem i that SOMEONE HAS TO BABYSIT THEM.
that type of wrap project doesn't just work out because of good luck.
promote one member, OR REPLACE ONE & bring in an experienced installer who can be responsible
for quality, training WORKING WITH THE TEAM & seeing to it that milestones are met

a weekly meeting (bring in lunch, review ongoing jobs, DISCUSS how to improve the workflow
if new tools are needed GET THEM
WHEN AN IDEA WORKS, give credit for it. work out some kind of bonus program

having the right person in the 'install manager' position is key.
someone who can keep the projects on time, REVIEW PROGRESS WITH YOU, until he gets his footing & works out a process & timeline for these installs

 

[signheremd]

8 months of experience is still a green employee - unless they did wraps elsewhere previously. Since you are new as well, the organizational work ethic and attitude may be holdovers and there may not be a history of being fair or supportive to staff. Some folks manage using a whip, some a carrot, and some walk beside their staff - question is, which will you be? What I am saying is start by looking at "the man in the mirror" and see if you treat and talk them as you would want to be treated. Next, have a "team" meeting and ask them to talk about the recent job and its challenges and successes. Let them know that wasting full sheets because of an error is costly to the company and that "we" need to learn from that mistake. Don't use words like "you" were too slow, instead say "the job took to much time to complete, how can we do better next time?" Engage them in finding the solutions as that ensures they are vested in making the changes. Take notes and follow up on the next time to see that the suggestions are implemented. (Make sure they see you take the notes and see you later follow up.) After they have spoken, add to their ideas or give your own. Remember, a company is a team and is only as strong as its weakest member. All failures/challenges are the team's responsibility. Don't point fingers publicly, save that for private or for reviews. If something costs the company money, make it clear that that cannot happen again. Always judge by the finished product and not the individual processes used - so time it took, quality of work, but never method unless it impacted time or quality.

I would start by saying "let's have a install team meeting. The last job had some expensive mistakes and took too long. Let's see if we can figure out how to do better on the next one." And go from there.

As far as training, I 100% agree that the company should send its staff and pay that bill. Yes, you risk training and losing someone, but you are investing in your most valuable asset - the skill of your staff. Yes, after someone has trained and proven they have improved skill they are worth more. But paying a higher hourly rate actually costs you less if they are more productive and make fewer costly mistakes. And there will always be a mistake once in a while - we are humans and no one is perfect - so your bottom line should allow for an occasional mistake expense.

As a manger it is your job to keep a focus on professionalism and profitability. Maybe one person has a bad attitude and that certainly impacts the rest. Maybe you can pull them aside and address this - that wasn't professional, what if a customer heard that, tone down the comments as it is impacting the work habits of others, let's keep it professional, etc.. Never manage to the point that you squeeze out all of the joy/fun, but be sure to keep staff pointed toward production, quality, and safety. Don't micromanage. Be willing to implement staff ideas, in fact look for opportunities to implement a staff suggestion. Praise in public - especially when they have improved on an issue that is public - like speed or quality of a job (but not an attitude improvement...).

Now, this said, my first move is not to clean house and re-staff, but to try and turn current staff around. If they do not respect you, then a ringleader will emerge and boldly defy your instructions. Document each infraction, date, time, description, and go to the owner and for permission to fire said. When you do fire them, make it a quick response to the issue, pull them in private, thank them for their time, let them know the issue, and let them know you are letting them go. No arguing, it is just a business decision. You don't tell the other employees why, but after the person leaves you can let them know that that person no longer works here. Keep emotions out of it - no anger, no joy, just business.

Bit long and maybe overly thorough - you probably know most of this. But wanted to convey all of this incase it is useful for someone. If you have never fired someone, best video I have seen on it is in the movie Moneyball. FWIW

 

[Stacey K]

Clean house, you can't change people. Start with the worst one and go from there, sometimes that's enough of a shock to motivate the others to do their job.
As far as it being a good workplace to them, of course it is. They can fuck off all day, slow boat the jobs, screw stuff up and get paid top dollar to do it. I had this issue here a long time ago and I canned the top guy first, the ringleader so to speak. After that, the shop turned around bigly.

Bigly. LOL