3M wrap aggressive vinyl problem - Roland Versacamm VP540

[tranceraider]

We have a Roland Versacamm vp540 and when printing spot colors recently we have had a problem with the wrap being too aggressive and locking in bubbles too easily. We are using 3M 180cv3-10 with 3M 8518 overlam. We are waiting at least 24 hours to 'out-gas'. The problem is only when using spot colors. The rest of the vinyl acts normally against vehicles and against itself. But as soon as you peel the backing paper off of the black spot color section of wrap it starts curling and is really malleable. As soon as it touches anything it instantly grabs and doesn't let air out.

It happened in the summer for a bit too, I thought it was the temperature of the garage when applying vinyl, but now it is winter and it is happening worse than before. I will attach a picture to illustrate the problem. It seems to only happen with really rich colors, the yellow/white/light blue of the print acts like this vinyl should, easily movable and re-position-able.

We do not have a temperature/humidity controlled environment for our printer and the temperature in the building is around 60 degrees. We do have the heater on the printer on, I think it is set to 103/130 for printing. We print with versaworks using [RIPC] Generic Banner 2 profile.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

well, can't seem to figure out how to remove this post, sorry for the repost.

 

[tranceraider]

Also the first picture is showing how the other colors are fine, 2nd picture is showing my problem with the black/spot color, and the 3rd is showing the same, and 4th is the back of the vinyl because we have to pull it so freaking hard just from the black touching anywhere on the truck.

 

[shoresigns]

Higher ink saturation on solvent printers will make the vinyl more malleable, as well as cause the curling edges you mentioned. The first step I would suggest is to get a manufacturer's ICC profile for the material. That should help balance out your ink usage.

 

[tranceraider]

Thanks, just downloaded the 3M profile, and going to test a small print out.

 

[tranceraider]

I guess you're trying to call me out for posting this in 3 different sections, I am just trying to get an answer, figured not everyone checks the vehicle wraps, and vehicle wraps (premium) sections.

Thanks for the concern though!

 

[shoresigns]

I guess you're trying to call me out for posting this in 3 different sections, I am just trying to get an answer, figured not everyone checks the vehicle wraps, and vehicle wraps (premium) sections.

Thanks for the concern though!

That's not how forums are supposed to work. You pick one forum that best fits the topic of conversation - you don't repost it everywhere you think it might be applicable and start 3 different conversations about the same thing.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I guess you're trying to call me out for posting this in 3 different sections, I am just trying to get an answer, figured not everyone checks the vehicle wraps, and vehicle wraps (premium) sections.

Thanks for the concern though!

The site is designed around the Recent Threads block on the home page. The individual forums are best for archive browsing. Posting duplicate threads is never a good idea, is against forum rules, and will cause confusion and irritate some who might otherwise have an answer for you.

 

[tranceraider]

So does that make the premium forums with same topics kind of worthless? That was the only reason I signed up, thinking it would give me a greater outreach to people who didn't check the public threads. I'll remove my other posts then, if that is possible.

 

[Fred Weiss]

So does that make the premium forums with same topics kind of worthless? That was the only reason I signed up, thinking it would give me a greater outreach to people who didn't check the public threads. I'll remove my other posts then, if that is possible.

No, not at all. The main purpose, however, of the premium forums is for discussions of topics that may be sensitive and they provide a layer of privacy as well as not being cataloged by the search engine bots.

Only an admin can remove duplicate threads. I'll look into it in due course.

 

[Jester1167]

You say you wait 24 hrs. before you laminate but what do you do with the vinyl while you wait. Is the vinyl rolled on a core, laid out on a table, or some other scenario? 60 deg is also pretty cool and will slow the evaporation of the VOC as well.

What are your ink limits in the profile your using? If I remember right the total ink limits should be below 250 or 280. If your above that your oversaturating the vinyl and wasting ink. Using a banner profile with premium vinyl is never a good Idea in my opinion. I would choose a profile for the media type your using provided by Roland (if I remember correctly - PCV2 ) or from one of the manufactures. 3M's profiles are pretty light on the ink, Oracal's is heavy and tends to get dark at the upper end, and Avery's is right in the middle. Each machine prints differently and you may not get the same results.

The solvents soften the vinyl and the adhesive. The vinyl becomes gummy and the air release channel close as soon as it touches the surface.

On a side note, I have heard that 3M has tweaked their adhesive some and it is slightly more aggressive. You may have had rolls of 180cv3 that had a solid grey adhesive and some with a darker mottled texture.

 

[tranceraider]

We let them dry hanging against a wall, or rolled loosely standing on end. We are going to make an attempt to try different profiles, and ink levels. See what happens. Thanks for the tips.

 

[HulkSmash]

Is your vehicle cold?

Also we had this issue before then soon realized 3M had mislabeled their rolls and we were wrapping with their 1 year vinyl..

 

[Aflac]

we had similar problems with the V3 and went back to V1. One of our suppliers shipped us a roll of V3 the other and my installers hated me when they had to install it. We one use V1 in our shop now

 

[tranceraider]

We did about 20 different options of color profiles and heat and such, haven't had much better results. We had some good results with a custom spot color, but the black is so far from black it is ridiculous - looks very purple. So we are now going to try to print to a sample roll of Arlon 6000xrp, and return the roll of cv3 we just ordered and order a roll of cv1 and see if that helps.

Not sure what temperature is considered cold, but it's inside at about 65 degress.

 

[Snydo]

On a side note, I have heard that 3M has tweaked their adhesive some and it is slightly more aggressive. You may have had rolls of 180cv3 that had a solid grey adhesive and some with a darker mottled texture.

I thought something had changed, the 8520 cast Lam has been barking like a dog lately as it comes off the backer, especially at 50FPM.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

We still prefer V1 over V3 for this reason as well. Not 100% sure but it seemed to be that V3 was more aggressive even on unprinted (white) areas.
Also the linear egress channels don't allow air to escape as well as the cross hatch pattern does. It's shallower and throws air down in rows...rather than spreading it out evenly.
That being said, if it had a lot of ink saturation, it's still going to be tackier than normal because the ink eats into the vinyl making it softer there.

 

[White Haus]

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Hey Signs101Admin there still seems to be an issue w/ hacked accounts FYI.

I've been reporting posts every day, seems like this is beginning to become a problem around here!

 

[petepaz]

banner profile may be dumping too much ink. even if you don't have the exact 3m profile you should be using a generic vinyl/pvc profile or cast vinyl profile.
also do those bubble happen during the install or after ?( it installs smooth and the bubble pop up afterwards)
those bubble look like they could possibly be an install issue

 

[Signs101Admin]

Hey Signs101Admin there still seems to be an issue w/ hacked accounts FYI.

I've been reporting posts every day, seems like this is beginning to become a problem around here!

The bots pick a username and test the password until it works, then log in and post—weak passwords. Thanks for reporting them.

 

[White Haus]

The bots pick a username and test the password until it works, then log in and post—weak passwords. Thanks for reporting them.

No problem, thank you for looking after them. Crazy how common this is becoming in the world. We get phishing/scam emails daily now.