A colour matching issue.

[heyskull]

We have a Mutoh Valuejet and I am trouble hitting, or even coming close to a yellow colour.

It is a colour based on Oracals 651 range of vinyl.
Oracal ref 020
RAL 1033
HKS 5

I have played around loads and just can't get it to look as bright.

Does anyone have a RGB or CYMK reference that has worked for this colour?

I normally shy away from matching colours exactly as their is some huge limitations especially when most printers like ours have only CMYK.
But this is to match a customer that we have used cut vinyl on his vehicles and I am just trying to make my life easier as I can make it a lot easier to apply and fit if it is all on one graphic.

Thanks
SC

 

[J Hill Designs]

some colors are just a PITA to hit.

 

[heyskull]

This one I think will be impossible with a CMYK printer.
The shade is right it is just missing brightness.
I have spent another 2 hours this morning trying to get it better but no matter what I change or profile I use it is not right.

SC

 

[Jr Douglas Imaging]

try doing it in photoshop and saving color space as RGB 1998 and when ripping use reletive colormetric rendering

 

[heyskull]

try doing it in photoshop and saving color space as RGB 1998 and when ripping use reletive colormetric rendering

I tried this with no better results.
The colour is kind of correct just dirty looking, if that is the correct term.

SC

 

[player]

Are you laminating? If so it might help with a colour shift and some brightening.

 

[dypinc]

We have a Mutoh Valuejet and I am trouble hitting, or even coming close to a yellow colour.

It is a colour based on Oracals 651 range of vinyl.
Oracal ref 020
RAL 1033
HKS 5

I have played around loads and just can't get it to look as bright.

Does anyone have a RGB or CYMK reference that has worked for this colour?

I normally shy away from matching colours exactly as their is some huge limitations especially when most printers like ours have only CMYK.
But this is to match a customer that we have used cut vinyl on his vehicles and I am just trying to make my life easier as I can make it a lot easier to apply and fit if it is all on one graphic.

Thanks
SC

Create a custom spot. Create a spot color library in your RIP. Name the spot color in your library the same as your spot color in your application. Now read with a spectro the LAB values of the cut vinyl you are trying to match. Your RIP should have an option to do this. Once you have your LAB values you can enter them into your application spot color for screen matching. It now only depends on the gamut your printer if it is capable of or how close you can match the cut vinyl.

 

[heyskull]

Create a custom spot. Create a spot color library in your RIP. Name the spot color in your library the same as your spot color in your application. Now read with a spectro the LAB values of the cut vinyl you are trying to match. Your RIP should have an option to do this. Once you have your LAB values you can enter them into your application spot color for screen matching. It now only depends on the gamut your printer if it is capable of or how close you can match the cut vinyl.

I personally do not get into colour matching as I believe you are always chasing your tail trying to match some colours with only a four colour pallete.

What spectro are you using as I am thinking of purchasing one?

SC

 

[dypinc]

i1pro 2

As for color matching, give it the correct information (LAB that is) don't restrict it with ICC input profiles be it CMYK or RGB. Using LAB values (from named spot colors) to the a properly profiled output device profile will be the maximum gamut you can get with that printer. If you can't achieve a match gamut wise then you will have to live with that.

 

[heyskull]

i1pro 2

As for color matching, give it the correct information (LAB that is) don't restrict it with ICC input profiles be it CMYK or RGB. Using LAB values (from named spot colors) to the a properly profiled output device profile will be the maximum gamut you can get with that printer. If you can't achieve a match gamut wise then you will have to live with that.

I have been setting the colour as LAB and have come across about 4 different variations and all still have the dirty yellow look.
It doesn't matter how little or big you adjust it, this colour is a very difficult one to even come close.

SC

 

[P Wagner]

The basic issue is to understand the concept of Color Gamuts, and that reference colors will either be inside or outside of a given gamut. In this case, HKS 5 is likely to be somewhat outside of the printer's gamut. When I plotted it, the best that I could achieve for the printer in question was a dE of 3.4 on Sihl Photobase paper.

The attached image shows a visual representation of the gamut of this paper, and the location of the HKS 5 reference color in LAB.

 

[heyskull]

I can foresee their will be further colour matching issues.
Can anyone recommend a good and reasonably priced spectrometer?

Cheers
SC

 

[SignProPlus-Chip]

Out of curiosity, have you tried printing with your color correction off while color matching? There isn't a color I haven't been able to hit using nothing but CMYK with color correction off. Whatever CMYK values I put in is exactly what comes out.

In fact I print from mostly CMYK files for this very reason, it does depend on what I am printing though.

I can foresee their will be further colour matching issues.
Can anyone recommend a good and reasonably priced spectrometer?

Cheers
SC

 

[dypinc]

Out of curiosity, have you tried printing with your color correction off while color matching? There isn't a color I haven't been able to hit using nothing but CMYK with color correction off. Whatever CMYK values I put in is exactly what comes out.

In fact I print from mostly CMYK files for this very reason, it does depend on what I am printing though.

That is very poor advice. If you have to turn color correction off to match color then your color management is not being done correctly. You shouldn't have to resort to printing out color targets with color correction off just to pick one out for a color match. What about the rest of the colors or halftone images in the job?

 

[SignProPlus-Chip]

That is very poor advice. If you have to turn color correction off to match color then your color management is not being done correctly. You shouldn't have to resort to printing out color targets with color correction off just to pick one out for a color match. What about the rest of the colors or halftone images in the job?

If I am printing from a CMYK source file, there is never an issue. If I am printing solid color graphics, I use CMYK with no CC, every color is reproduced to the exact CMYK value I input in my file.

If I have an RGB file with gradients, halftones or photos I enable color correction as color has to be corrected to adjust for the RGB colors that are outside the gamut of the CMYK ink capabilities.

It all depends on the source file that I am printing from.

Example, I have a client that uses a specific deep, yet vibrant orange in their trade dress. With CC on, no matter how I shift the CMYK values in Flexi I cannot achieve the right color when I print. I require more direct control over the CMYK output, so I turn of CC to get out EXACTLY what I put into it. I could achieve this by changing the color in Flexi to RGB or LAB values then trying to dial those in, but its not worth the time. I know my CMYK palette very well so it's quick and easy for me to do it this way, and of course it always yields the desired results.

It's not a bad thing to disable CC provided you know what you are doing.

 

[heyskull]

Out of curiosity, have you tried printing with your color correction off while color matching? There isn't a color I haven't been able to hit using nothing but CMYK with color correction off. Whatever CMYK values I put in is exactly what comes out.

In fact I print from mostly CMYK files for this very reason, it does depend on what I am printing though.

Surely you are not suggesting that it is possible to print every colour avaiable using a CMYK printer?
I truly think you are misguided or have been very very lucky or have the rest of us been doing it wrong all along?

The issue is I have found is their are a few different variations for CMYK for this colour and all print dirty even with the colour correction off.
Maybe if I had an Orange available on my printer pallete it may come a lot closer.
Even when scanning a piece of the vinyl I want it shows on screen and prints orange.

SC

 

[SignProPlus-Chip]

I said no such thing. What I said was that "I" have never had an issue dialing in on a color. I've been dealing with color matching CMYK values for about 25 years, offset, desktop and wide format. There are always limitations with hardware,even though those limitation decrease over time as technology gets better.

Yes, you would likely benefit from having an eight color printer, but we all have to work with what we've got.

Here is a test swatch off our HP L26500, I overprinted with more yellow to increase saturation...just about a dead match. So see, it CAN be done. Given more time I could probably get it even closer.

Center swatch is the 020 651 - printed on 3651

Surely you are not suggesting that it is possible to print every colour avaiable using a CMYK printer?
I truly think you are misguided or have been very very lucky or have the rest of us been doing it wrong all along?

The issue is I have found is their are a few different variations for CMYK for this colour and all print dirty even with the colour correction off.
Maybe if I had an Orange available on my printer pallete it may come a lot closer.
Even when scanning a piece of the vinyl I want it shows on screen and prints orange.

SC

 

[P Wagner]

Here is a test swatch off our HP L26500, I overprinted with more yellow to increase saturation...just about a dead match. So see, it CAN be done. Given more time I could probably get it even closer.

Center swatch is the 020 651 - printed on 3651

When you say that you 'overprinted with more yellow to increase saturation' I would like to understand what that means in more practical terms (perhaps you printed two times in the same place, or used a 'high ink' setting in the media profile, or something altogether different)?

 

[heyskull]

I said no such thing. What I said was that "I" have never had an issue dialing in on a color. I've been dealing with color matching CMYK values for about 25 years, offset, desktop and wide format. There are always limitations with hardware,even though those limitation decrease over time as technology gets better.

Yes, you would likely benefit from having an eight color printer, but we all have to work with what we've got.

Here is a test swatch off our HP L26500, I overprinted with more yellow to increase saturation...just about a dead match. So see, it CAN be done. Given more time I could probably get it even closer.

Center swatch is the 020 651 - printed on 3651

Wow I am gobsmacked...
I am getting no where near that sort of match.
I too am trying to work out what you mean "I overprinted with more yellow to increase saturation"
I noticed that your printer has an advantage over mine as my Mutoh Valuejet has 4 colours and your HP L26500 has 6.
Is it possible to come as close as that using just CMYK?

SC

 

[mikeinpdx]

I've been playing around with a developing a web app to help with spot color matching. I'd be interested to see if it's helpful for you or others
http://spotcolormatch.com

Might be a lilttle flaky while I work some issues out, but it's free...

Thanks,
Mike

We have a Mutoh Valuejet and I am trouble hitting, or even coming close to a yellow colour.

It is a colour based on Oracals 651 range of vinyl.
Oracal ref 020
RAL 1033
HKS 5

I have played around loads and just can't get it to look as bright.

Does anyone have a RGB or CYMK reference that has worked for this colour?

I normally shy away from matching colours exactly as their is some huge limitations especially when most printers like ours have only CMYK.
But this is to match a customer that we have used cut vinyl on his vehicles and I am just trying to make my life easier as I can make it a lot easier to apply and fit if it is all on one graphic.

Thanks
SC