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Are sign professionals just giving up?
- Thread starter neato
- Start date
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Mostly to my church, but I have used my tithe to directly help people when I felt the call too. I've never been convicted to hand out $$ to homeless people.
Before you ask, I am on the board of my church so I have first hand knowledge of what $$ is going where... I'm also am on our budget committee which is not an easy task. Our income dropped because of the passing of a "whale" of a member, and when most of the money is spent on outreach projects so it makes it very difficult deciding who or what gets nixed...
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#racewraps
@printwithspeed
We live in a DIY culture where everyone seems to be an “expert” this industry specifically always seemed to be the wicked step child of the design industry for whatever reason. Anyone can spend a few hundred bucks and be a “graphics shop”
On the design side it looks like a lot of people just don’t understand the importance of simple high contrast design & layout. I do a lot of design work for other shops & people in various industries as well. Had a client send over a wrap design recently that in my opinion looked very nice, was simple to the point, very legible with great contrast that said “ it’s blah, we want to add some stuff to it!” My response was please don’t, just leave it alone. It worked as it was the message was clear.
We need less bullet holes, ripped metal and barbed wire and more contrast, legibility and clear messaging.
Then you get the ones who come to you and don’t want to spend good money on their business brand, whatever is cheap & quick. those people can go do wn the road. Don’t want it.
Just my thoughts, everyone has their own opinions of what looks good. But most people only have taste in their mouths.
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Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
There has always been a thin line between being a righteous man, and a self-righteous one.
Do you assume that the OP or anyone on the thread, or the site, lack faith, commitment or knowledge of whatever belief system they choose to believe?
I will assume you are christian... I'll use a simple reference in case it's hard for you to understand.
Colossians 3:23 (NIV)
23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,
If I was going to be a "Christain", I would commit myself to do everything in HIS glory... if I am "assumed" to be a great christian and a sh!tty sign guy... How well will that reflect on my faith to others? How does that honor "your" lord? There are many meanings to the scripture but, cr@p sign guys who happen to be believers should attempt to do all things toward their master... in doing so, others will see their faith in action. Imagine that your work is part of your worship that can be a testament to your faith! Shouldn't it be the best you can do? And you can enjoy it too... while enjoying the fruits of the other parts of your work/worship like the relationship with your wife, family, friends and strangers. WOW!
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Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
I sometimes lack all the above.
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In October I'm going to reach my 25th anniversary at my workplace, this large-ish sign company in Lawton. Business has been pretty good the past couple of years. It got an additional boost when a couple rival sign guys in our community came to work for us after having a falling out with their former partner. Despite that news it has been tough for me to maintain my enthusiasm for designing signs and I am fairly worried about what could happen within the next 10 or so years.
I really don't like how neon is becoming so rare in new signs. There is a big emphasis on pushing variable message LED signs, often at the expense of the primary sign. So many new signs are just rectangular boxes with printed graphics. It's rare to see new signs with creative shapes and levels of three dimensional depth.
There's very little respect for the graphic design profession anymore. However, I think the profession suffered its biggest blow almost 30 years ago when many of the computer-based design applications started arriving. When everything was done using analog methods very few DIY amateurs had the guts to attempt that kind of work. Back then there was greater emphasis on training, formal education, even 4-year degrees. Back then any designer would approach projects with a plan and deliberate process.
Today it's all very different. People believe the computers are doing the work. They think it's like an episode of CSI: Blah-Blah-Blah where one rattles some gibberish into the computer's keyboard and a finished project spits out instantly. They don't think anything like "talent," "principals of design" or a "plan" figures in to any of that. It should come as no surprise quite a few think they could do the work themselves.
As for difficult clients, they've always been around in my market. The trick is developing good relationships with enough repeat customers so you have more choices how to deal with the difficult PITA clients (like having the option to tell them to take their business elsewhere).
Like difficult clients, hacks have always been around too. Of course, computer-based tools have made it a lot easier for hacks to pass themselves off as graphic designers or sign makers. It's nothing new to see sign panels with all the lettering set in Arial Black, squeezed or stretched to fit any space. There are plenty of sign shops that just churn out garbage quality work out to customers at cut rate prices.
I would say large format printers have made it easier for hacks to operate. 20 years ago all that distorted Arial Black lettering and junky customer provided logos had to be cut out of vinyl and applied to the sign face with some level of precision. The logos would have to be vectorized, and done so in a way friendly to vinyl cutters. Today it can all be printed on one single sheet of material. Who even needs to vectorize that low resolution JPEG logo? Just print it as is! It's good enough. After all, it's a digital file.
The thing that makes me worry about the future is what these no-talent hacks are doing to the commercial landscape. 20 years ago I looked upon ugly signs as an annoying form of civic vandalism, but something I could use to educate customers as one reason why our signs were better. Now I see every new ugly sign installed differently. I see each new ugly sign as another bullet worth of ammunition for civic leaders pushing anti-signs ordinances. Ugly signs accumulate. If there's enough of them visually polluting the streets of a town or city that civic government will be more likely to make some rash decisions.
Scottdale, AZ is one suburb notable for its sign restrictions. These ordinances can pop up anywhere. Edmond, Oklahoma outlawed any new LED-based electronic variable message centers and have enacted other new restrictions. Here in Lawton we've had people on the city council try to draft sweeping, restrictive sign ordinances (but failed). Any reputable sign company should be aware of what is happening in the city governments where they do business.
Us sign people (and sign designers in particular) have to do a better job policing our own work. I'll admit this is sort of a negative way to look at it, but one of the biggest motivations I have for not churning out ugly work is I'm going to see that sign on the landscape for years to come. If I did a terrible job designing it that ugly sign will remind me of the bad job I did every time I drive past it. If I at least tried to do a good job, but was overridden by poor customer decisions, I'd feel a little better about it. I might still be mad at the customer, but I wouldn't be mad at myself.
My concerns about sign ordinances go past protecting the future of my job. We have a retail apocalypse in full swing now. Brick and mortar retailers actually need, more than ever, to spruce up their store front identities. They need vibrant, effective signage among other things. The commercial zones of city streets need to look really cool and inviting. If it's all covered up with bushes, trees and other landscaping it's going to be that much easier for people to stay home and order all their stuff online. And that will be bad for the local economy. The last time I checked we haven't been selling any signs to Amazon. But our shop does business with a lot of local employers Amazon would seek to put out of business.
I really don't like how neon is becoming so rare in new signs. There is a big emphasis on pushing variable message LED signs, often at the expense of the primary sign. So many new signs are just rectangular boxes with printed graphics. It's rare to see new signs with creative shapes and levels of three dimensional depth.
neato said:
There's very little respect for the graphic design profession anymore. However, I think the profession suffered its biggest blow almost 30 years ago when many of the computer-based design applications started arriving. When everything was done using analog methods very few DIY amateurs had the guts to attempt that kind of work. Back then there was greater emphasis on training, formal education, even 4-year degrees. Back then any designer would approach projects with a plan and deliberate process.
Today it's all very different. People believe the computers are doing the work. They think it's like an episode of CSI: Blah-Blah-Blah where one rattles some gibberish into the computer's keyboard and a finished project spits out instantly. They don't think anything like "talent," "principals of design" or a "plan" figures in to any of that. It should come as no surprise quite a few think they could do the work themselves.
As for difficult clients, they've always been around in my market. The trick is developing good relationships with enough repeat customers so you have more choices how to deal with the difficult PITA clients (like having the option to tell them to take their business elsewhere).
Gino said:
Like difficult clients, hacks have always been around too. Of course, computer-based tools have made it a lot easier for hacks to pass themselves off as graphic designers or sign makers. It's nothing new to see sign panels with all the lettering set in Arial Black, squeezed or stretched to fit any space. There are plenty of sign shops that just churn out garbage quality work out to customers at cut rate prices.
I would say large format printers have made it easier for hacks to operate. 20 years ago all that distorted Arial Black lettering and junky customer provided logos had to be cut out of vinyl and applied to the sign face with some level of precision. The logos would have to be vectorized, and done so in a way friendly to vinyl cutters. Today it can all be printed on one single sheet of material. Who even needs to vectorize that low resolution JPEG logo? Just print it as is! It's good enough. After all, it's a digital file.
The thing that makes me worry about the future is what these no-talent hacks are doing to the commercial landscape. 20 years ago I looked upon ugly signs as an annoying form of civic vandalism, but something I could use to educate customers as one reason why our signs were better. Now I see every new ugly sign installed differently. I see each new ugly sign as another bullet worth of ammunition for civic leaders pushing anti-signs ordinances. Ugly signs accumulate. If there's enough of them visually polluting the streets of a town or city that civic government will be more likely to make some rash decisions.
Scottdale, AZ is one suburb notable for its sign restrictions. These ordinances can pop up anywhere. Edmond, Oklahoma outlawed any new LED-based electronic variable message centers and have enacted other new restrictions. Here in Lawton we've had people on the city council try to draft sweeping, restrictive sign ordinances (but failed). Any reputable sign company should be aware of what is happening in the city governments where they do business.
Us sign people (and sign designers in particular) have to do a better job policing our own work. I'll admit this is sort of a negative way to look at it, but one of the biggest motivations I have for not churning out ugly work is I'm going to see that sign on the landscape for years to come. If I did a terrible job designing it that ugly sign will remind me of the bad job I did every time I drive past it. If I at least tried to do a good job, but was overridden by poor customer decisions, I'd feel a little better about it. I might still be mad at the customer, but I wouldn't be mad at myself.
My concerns about sign ordinances go past protecting the future of my job. We have a retail apocalypse in full swing now. Brick and mortar retailers actually need, more than ever, to spruce up their store front identities. They need vibrant, effective signage among other things. The commercial zones of city streets need to look really cool and inviting. If it's all covered up with bushes, trees and other landscaping it's going to be that much easier for people to stay home and order all their stuff online. And that will be bad for the local economy. The last time I checked we haven't been selling any signs to Amazon. But our shop does business with a lot of local employers Amazon would seek to put out of business.
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Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Pass it on, but expect to get called on it... this is a SIGN forum, you have no clue what anyone does with their faith... and you go on here and say, I gave 10% over and I'm making cash! Yay, good for you... where can I get in on this deal! And I can be happy too! Yay again!
By the way, you are not being persecuted... so I'm hoping your hands are not in the air praising god about the stand you are taking... you spreading misinterpretations based on your limited beliefs and it's frightening.
What is humble? "being humble"
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Frightening huh? Lol
Enjoy the fireworks tonight Rick, it's back to work tomorrow!
In one way, I envy the clueless... though I have the rest of the week off to ponder the liberties in which I live in (and troll the site)
Johnny Best
Active Member
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Yeah, it's not something 'real' like you have in your pants and play with, huh ??
Why is it, so many people hafta make fun of this belief ?? Ya don't believe...... fine. Why make fun of me and others like me, just because you don't believe ?? I don't around looking for excuses to make fun of you.
KMC
Graphic Artist
not making fun just staring a fact
sign_chick
New Member
HMMM. I feel like you can definitely take this a step further. With all the skills that you say you have, I think there is a way. But maybe there's a missing piece that ties it all together.
I enjoy listening to Andy J Pizza's Creative Pep Talk podcast. He's an illustrator and muralist and now a public speaker. He creates all his podcast covers illustrations and murals around the US. He figured out that he also likes speaking and has become a really awesome motivator in that sense. On top of that, this is how he gets his new and continued clients.
I use him as an example because he figured out how to create the art HE wants to make and to do his own thang and live a (fairly) good life. Please give him a listen to if you have the chance (though he's a bit intense though very motivating, to some he may be hard to listen to)
don't give up. do what you love and keep creating and hopefully the rest of the universe follows through and provides for you
Gino
Premium Subscriber
It's one thing to make fun of someone's lousy attempts at humor, artistic ability or silly habits, but to say you are stating a fact, (or as you said.....staring) when you have NOTHING to back up your accusation other than a........ lol or calling my God imaginary, that's not a good thing.
I don't really care what you do, what you believe or how you conduct yourself in person, but to make fun of my belief system, is just uncalled for anywhere...... even on an open forum.
KMC
Graphic Artist
ALL of the gods are imaginary not just yours mine too, we choose what to believe in and thats great we all need faith in the process of life and the after life
KMC
Graphic Artist
EXACTLY people need to stop with all the scripture