if someone sends you artwork. A sketch. And you have to vectorize and/or redraw it, who owns the artwork?
Geneva Olson said:if someone sends you artwork. A sketch. And you have to vectorize and/or redraw it, who owns the artwork?
Geneva Olson said:Can you post that artwork on social media? As in, "look at what we did?"
who owns the artwork?
Layout and Design. As a general rule, the [US Copyright] Office will not accept a claim to copyright in “format” or “layout.” The general layout or format of a book, page, book cover, slide presentation, web page, poster, or form is uncopyrightable because it is a template for expression.
Take them out of your site and say sorry? Like he didn't want them to be seen... It's just a vehicle jeez.Ok... to go a little deeper... I sold graphics to a customer for their SXS off-road vehicle. They posted the installed pics online. I saved the pics from their FB posting, and put them up on my website. The fella turned around whining that he didn't give me permission to use said pics, and he should have gotten a discount for using his machine as advertising.
Thoughts on that?
He is right! The pics are his property and you need permission to use them.Ok... to go a little deeper... I sold graphics to a customer for their SXS off-road vehicle. They posted the installed pics online. I saved the pics from their FB posting, and put them up on my website. The fella turned around whining that he didn't give me permission to use said pics, and he should have gotten a discount for using his machine as advertising.
Thoughts on that?
I always ask for the customer to send me pics that I can put on our fb page. Usually they are proud to have their bike featured on our page.Ok... to go a little deeper... I sold graphics to a customer for their SXS off-road vehicle. They posted the installed pics online. I saved the pics from their FB posting, and put them up on my website. The fella turned around whining that he didn't give me permission to use said pics, and he should have gotten a discount for using his machine as advertising.
Thoughts on that?
Assuming that he wasn't just kidding around with you .....It'd be hard not to tell him to bring his **** back, tear it all off and give him the money back....
Thoughts on that?
This thread remined me of some drama that played out here on S101 a bunch of years ago. I had designed and lettered a clients vehicles for a number of years when a new signmaker in town approached him and told him he could letter his trucks and excavators for less than I was charging. He duplicated my designs and poached my client and then called me up to say he needed my files to do the work properly. I went on the signguys web page to find he had pics of my designs he was copying. When I I mentioned it was a bit shady he came on S101 and posted this....
signbrad said:Who owns copyright to this design? The designer? The restaurant chain? No. No one owns the copyright. It is not copyrightable. It doesn't qualify for copyright protection. It never did.
signbrad said:This is why it is important to have your design work covered by a deposit. If a design is not copyrightable, you certainly can't sue someone for infringement. You can send cease-and-desist letters to try to intimidate them into paying you something, or to try to prevent them from using the design.
But they can simply ignore the letters.
Going through that this morning. Doing some signs for the Philly Army Corp of Engineers and they gave me bad files. I explained what's going on and they need to be cleaned up and made better. They are stopping in this afternoon to look at their results and what needs to be done in order to give them the best we can do. They already know it will cost more, but they wanna see the differences for themselves. I don't believe in blind-siding people and then hold sh!t hostage afterwards.
It's important to charge separately for tasks like vector-based logo re-creation from JPEG amateur customer provided artwork. For more involved things like vehicle wrap designs, it's crazy to design any of that stuff up front on spec. Design deposits are always a good idea in those cases.
The other argument here would be is it my responsibility to set my prices at a rate that insures another person's success? If there are other people encroaching on your space at a price significantly lower than you and still profitable, then the larger problem may lie within the other person's business model or pricing structure.I agree.
Charging appropriately for design work cannot be over-emphasized, in my opinion.
A few years ago, in a conversation with the owner of one of the larger ad agencies here in Kansas City, the subject of charging for artwork came up. She said, in a tactful way, that sign companies need to exhibit more professionalism regarding art, both in costing and in production. We were talking about pricing a specific job in particular——a vectorizing task that my boss charged 60 dollars for that she would have charged 300 for. She implied that design is often not taken seriously in the sign industry and that many agencies tend to use a sign shop strictly as a service bureau for end production rather than as a source of serious design work. She said there is a certain "amateurishness" that sign makers project. Her last words to me about vectorizing for cheap were "knock yourself out."
I can't help the feeling that she was right. That we sign goobers have dug ourselves a hole that is difficult to get out of. Especially since the advent of computer-assisted design and production, there has been, it seems, a race to the bottom. And it's not just about cost, but professionalism in general.
When I was young, it seemed that the hacks were in the minority; that there existed, among sign makers generally, a striving for a high caliber of work, and a ridicule for knock-out artists——for people who didn't care, either in the area of design or in fabrication. And though we called ourselves 'craftsmen,' or 'mechanics,' rather than fine artists, acknowledging a certain blue-collar status, there was still a pursuit of excellence that most shared.
It seems to me that things are different, now. Low price and low quality dominate the market (am I wrong?). Sometimes, people who want to produce quality and charge appropriately are the ones who are mocked. I have even seen shop owners intentionally let mistakes go out the door, saying, "We'll fix it when it comes back." Were they trying to buy time? Were they desperately trying to avoid a missed deadline? Or worse, hoping the client wouldn't notice? Do other trades do this? Car mechanics? Plumbers? Maybe some actually do. Medical providers? That's a scary thought.
I suspect that at least part of the reason that standards are so low these days is that pricing is so depressed. A low-priced shop can become overwhelmed with work and there is pressure to just get it out the door. My old mentor used to say, "If you are always covered up with work, you may be too cheap."
But what explains the preponderance of poor design in our industry? Good design usually doesn't take any more time then bad design in most cases. Given a preference, and all things being equal, all of us prefer to produce good layout.
But... if we don't understand good composition, we will always struggle with it. I believe the cause of this lack of understanding is, to a great extent, because we don't read anymore.
Few of us are born knowing principles of good design, though some lucky ones seem to have a natural talent for good layout and composition. Also, many of us are back-watered in shops by ourselves with no chance to collaborate with others and grow. And just looking at good design doesn't always work, either. What if you look at good design but can't comprehend what makes it good? And then couple that with the fact that poor and ineffective design looks "normal" these days because it is so widespread, like when you see a misspelling often enough that the correct spelling looks odd.
It seems to me that the way out is to read (books that explain the elements of good design, not just picture books). Having and knowing a vocabulary for design is important to be able to produce it. This was a basic premise in Mike Stevens' book, Mastering Layout.
When he was alive, Stevens hosted seminars on layout. He explained both composition and terminology. A few others have done this as well, and a good number of persons have benefited greatly from these teachers. But for most of us, reading is the essential way to achieve excellence in our craft. Reading can allow you to "see" good composition, define what makes it good. Simply learning the terms for good design elements can help you to put them into practice routinely. And that's what we should want——to make good design a routine rather than an exception. To paraphrase Mike Stevens, good design is not something we do on special occasions, it's the mark of a professional.
My mentor said, "If you don't take yourself seriously, no one else will."
Ranting in Kansas City,
Obviously, I went a little off-topic here.