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Avery Vinyl with 3M Overlam...no-no or?

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
I'm sure both manufacturers would say it's a no-no but,

What are the downsides to laminated Avery 1105 Vinyl with 3M Envision Laminate? I'm trying to get the longest length product and 3M's Envision has it...but I prefer the adhesive of Avery.

Questions, Comments, Concerns, Allegations?
 
jfiscus

jfiscus

Rap Master
You should be fine with using a 3M cast laminate on top of the Avery cast wrap vinyl. I would not expect any problems.
However, you will not receive any warranty on the vinyls from either manufacturer, I have no idea if this matters to you / your shop.
You will also not qualify for 3M's MCS compliance program, if that matters to your shop. (ask your 3M rep about it next time, they HIGHLY suggested it to us; we are trying to get our guys out to be certified now)

If your installers like the combo and you ain't scared, go for it. ;)

Also, you should be fine with the 3M 8518/8519/8520 series laminates and not have to go to the envision price point.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
jfiscus said:
You should be fine with using a 3M cast laminate on top of the Avery cast wrap vinyl. I would not expect any problems.
However, you will not receive any warranty on the vinyls from either manufacturer, I have no idea if this matters to you / your shop.
You will also not qualify for 3M's MCS compliance program, if that matters to your shop. (ask your 3M rep about it next time, they HIGHLY suggested it to us; we are trying to get our guys out to be certified now)

If your installers like the combo and you ain't scared, go for it. ;)

Also, you should be fine with the 3M 8518/8519/8520 series laminates and not have to go to the envision price point.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of the cert/warranty issues.
However I think you missed the point by listing the other 3M lams as they don't have the life expectancy the Envision does which was the entire point of using it & this thread.
I don't warranty wraps that long anyway, but I'd like to know I'm using the longest life products.
Considering the Envision vinyl/overlam combo behaves differently with heat, I don't know how it will behave if only one of those non-pvc elements are in the equation.

I also like the Avery lam as it isn't as yellow as the others.
 
2B

2B

Active Member
it sounds like you have already made your mind up to mix.

best of luck and let the board know how mixing PVC and NON-PVC materials works.
 
d fleming

d fleming

New Member
Kentucky Wraps said:
As a wrap installer, Avery's adhesive is much easier to work with. Are you a wrap installer?
Click to expand...
I am. As well as a great deal of other things. Full service shop from bus cards to electric signs and screen printing. I am one of those old farts who got dumped on by Avery years ago to the tune of tens of thousands $$. I wouldn't use anything from them for any reason.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
Kentucky Wraps said:
Yes but it's got half the life expectancy than 3M's envision and 3M is always conservative with their claims compared to Avery & Arlon.
Click to expand...

Call your supplier and ask for a sample piece, and try it out? I've got 4-5 different materials out in the shop yard at anytime, bathing in the sun to see how they do. Usually our suppliers will give us a couple SQFT of whatever material we'd like to test. And if not, they'd probably only charge a small fee. Print a sample out... laminate it, throw it on something, and put it outside for a few weeks. It wont tell you how long it's going to last... But I'm sure if there were heating issues between the two, you'd see it beginning to curl after a week or two.

I mix brands a lot... I use signmax laminate with Oracal, 3M, Avery materials, 8518 3M with them..etc. We've never had a problem. The cheap laminate goes on stuff not typically meant to last more than 2-3 years, and 8518 goes on stuff meant to last 7+ years. I think the only way you'll know if it works, is if you sample it yourself... not worth buying a whole roll to test.
 
CSOCSO

CSOCSO

I don't hate paint, I just overlay it.
I would stay away from arlon. Not sure how their product are nowadays but years ago i had a lot of shrinking problems with their materials
I prefer only avery and 3M
 
jfiscus

jfiscus

Rap Master
Kentucky Wraps said:
I'm aware of the cert/warranty issues.
However I think you missed the point by listing the other 3M lams as they don't have the life expectancy the Envision does which was the entire point of using it & this thread.
I don't warranty wraps that long anyway, but I'd like to know I'm using the longest life products.
Considering the Envision vinyl/overlam combo behaves differently with heat, I don't know how it will behave if only one of those non-pvc elements are in the equation.

I also like the Avery lam as it isn't as yellow as the others.
Click to expand...

My point was that I wouldn't worry about it if it was just the regular cast laminates, so I would have no worries at all about the envision series.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
d fleming said:
I am. As well as a great deal of other things. Full service shop from bus cards to electric signs and screen printing. I am one of those old farts who got dumped on by Avery years ago to the tune of tens of thousands $$. I wouldn't use anything from them for any reason.
Click to expand...

Can't say I blame ya.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
2B said:
it sounds like you have already made your mind up to mix.

best of luck and let the board know how mixing PVC and NON-PVC materials works.
Click to expand...

Nope. Haven't made up my mind yet. Just dissecting the arguments put forth for and against it.
 
TheSnowman

TheSnowman

New Member
I mix Arlon laminate with Oracal, 3M, and Avery all the time. As long as it's cast with cast and calendered with calendered, most people say it shouldn't be a problem. Been doing it probably 5 years now and never had a problem.

As far as the Avery discussion, I stayed away from it forever after being burned a little back in the reflective failure days, but in the last 2 months I've used their wrap films, and I've used their calendered air release vinyl, and I won't use anything else now. I wrapped a big planter cylinder this weekend and was worried about how that was going to go, and I couldn't even believe how easy this stuff went down.
 
mpn

mpn

New Member
outdoor_funguy said:
I got my car covered with Vinyl Wrap from www.gatorwraps.com . They have a lot of wraps, 3M Vinyl Wraps or Avery Denison Vinyl Wraps. You might want to visit the website tho, you can request for a quote plus they have a lot of vinyl wraps with lots of colors to choose from.
Click to expand...

You should check out the Merchant Membership application.
 
eahicks

eahicks

Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
You can mix brands all you want, I have found, with no issues. I would just be sure to use CAST lam with CAST vinyl and CAL lam with CAL vinyl. They will shrink at different rates.
 
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