Best option for printing onto aluminum blanks in scale?

[Flatbedsigns]

We are looking to move to a True Flatbed, we have looked into these 3 models as what looks like our best options.

EFI Pro 30f
TRUFIRE LT/X2
Vanguard Digital VK300D-HS



In terms of what we will be using it for,
Caldera Rip software
approx 100-300 12"x18" .063 or .040 aluminum blanks a day,
we also do some sizes as small as 7"x10" but that's a small percent.
We will also be using them to do sheets of material but are mostly concerned with the day to day use when printing on the alum blanks.

our main concern is ease of use in terms of printing large amounts of individual jobs onto alum blanks,

Is it going to be easier to nest the jobs in pre-set layouts that fill a full bed in caldera or should we send over individual signs and fill out the jobs from the printer side?

Most of what we have seen online for these 3 printers has been about printing the same job on sheets over and over,but that is pretty far from how we will be using them actually.

Does anyone have one of these models that is using it more like we will be?

how easy is it to load a full table with blanks ?
how many tables full of jobs can you lay out and print per hour usually?
Do you use a jig for larger sizes too like the 12x18? at what size do you think a jig is useful?


any drawbacks to any of them? things that are a consistent headache about it for you?

Any insight is greatly appreciated, thank you for your help.

 

[Gino]

Quick question................ Why do you wanna pre-cut that many blanks a day ?? You'll spend more time baby-sitting the machine while you keep feeding it blanks than if you do a printed sheet, then cut it on another good machine.

 

[Boudica]

We recently got hit up for about 100 10x7" signs on ACM. I will be printing however many I can get up on a sheet (54) and then having them CNC cut.

 

[Flatbedsigns]

Quick question................ Why do you wanna pre-cut that many blanks a day ?? You'll spend more time baby-sitting the machine while you keep feeding it blanks than if you do a printed sheet, then cut it on another good machine.

We are not cutting the blanks then printing on them , we are buying blanks. Even if we did want to cut the blanks from alum sheets it would not a option for us in our current set up.

 

[zspace]

The Digitech prints great on aluminum. We run both full sheets and cut sheets of aluminum. If your job is fixed sizes you might be happier with cut sheets. We found that the router couldn‘t keep up with the printer on .063.

 

[bdw99]

If your using blanks, in your design software make a file as many outlined blanks you can on the bed. Then print the outlines directly onto the bed. Use those outlines to line up the blanks, scrape off the ink when done.

 

[d fleming]

I just saw a reel last night on a new flatbed that can sight read your blank position on belt and place art on each piece, kind of like some of the better lasers. The demo showed a fist full of guitar picks just randomly tossed on belt and machine found and printed each one where they were as they passed under print heads. Can't remember what the brand was (I was half asleep when I saw it) but might be worth a little research time, sounds like it might be just what you need.

 

[petepaz]

Quick question................ Why do you wanna pre-cut that many blanks a day ?? You'll spend more time baby-sitting the machine while you keep feeding it blanks than if you do a printed sheet, then cut it on another good machine.

yeah if you are doing that type of volume i would say look in to a cutter as well. lining up the blanks on the bed, removing them will be a lot of time. print a full sheet and then cut it, less labor and as Gino said babysitting the machine to make sure you don't have printing issues

 

[Flatbedsigns]

yeah if you are doing that type of volume i would say look in to a cutter as well. lining up the blanks on the bed, removing them will be a lot of time. print a full sheet and then cut it, less labor and as Gino said babysitting the machine to make sure you don't have printing issues

Yeah i want to make it clear we are not pre cutting the blanks, we are buying the blanks, we are not looking into cutting the alums ether.

 

[Bxtr]

We have a VK300DHS, its a great machine and the ability to grow as your business needs (add heads/speed)
We will print on blanks here when we have one offs, but like said above we nest up a full sheet and print and route.

We've made some jigs in the past, but never to fill the bed, more random shapes that we've need to next up.

 

[Humble PM]

A possibly dumb suggestion - get a template cut, 0.5mm out from a decent sheet of 8x4' (dibond 3mm?), something that has moderate thickness skins*, something that has reasonable dimensional stability, to accomodate the pre-cuts. Might allow you to drop (nudge) the blanks in, rather than going by eye. If it works, then get more templates cut. I's assume they would have a limited life, but that would be something to factor into the cost.
Have an infeed table to shift the pre-loaded sheet of blanks to the cutter, and and out feed to make space for the next batch.


*Yes, I know the top skin will be gone in the template holes, but should still be good for a few runs, and if sufficient space between holes is left, should help retain strucure.

Oh, and to you left pondians, Follow Gino's suggestion - Happy 4th July

 

[Nate1n22]

You could make a template in Caldera's Compose window. Then just add whatever files you need for each bed. I would rather have a jig cut for larger quantities but you could print a template on the bed as well. The Trufire's bed is black, so hopefully you have white ink option if you want to print the template.

We just did a job this week with prepainted and precut acrylic pieces. I cut a jig out of 3mm PVC and it worked great on the Trufire. Jigs never worked good on our old FujiFilm Acuity's because the vacuum was not good.

I only have experience with the Trufire, but be prepared for orange/washed out looking reds. You will need to run at a higher density to get nice reds on that printer

 

[Andrew Heiner]

We use jigs all the time. I find it much easier than print then cut. If it's a jig we use every day we cut it out of plastic, like hdpe. I take quite a bit of time thinking how the jig will work from how to put product in and take product out. Finger holes, drop down sides so you can push on the left side to lift the rightside so you can grab it. If you can save 3 to 4 mins every load or unload, that adds up really fast.
I also have a jig that has multiple sizes on it that we use for every day projects, if we dont need to print a certian size we just dont load up that spot.
We also cut suction holes through the bottom to hold down the parts.
Also if your machine is a big flat bed we found printing on half the table to be more efficient as you can load & unload one half while the machine prints the other.
Printing lines on the table is smart if your just printing a few, but you will be wasting alot of time if your not using a jig.

 

[Troy Lesher]

Like Andrew Said, Making a Jig is the most efficient way to do it as you can make multiple jibs and be filling one while the other is printing. one other suggestion and a little less effective is to full the bed with Butcher paper, print a st on it, cut them out and put thick double back tape as edge guides, it keeps the bed clean from over edge printing, and its more accurate than putting them edge to edge, but again, if you have the resources, the Jig is the way to go.

 

[somcalmetim]

Yeah i want to make it clear we are not pre cutting the blanks, we are buying the blanks, we are not looking into cutting the alums ether.

Ya I think we get you are buying the blanks not cutting them but it amounts to the same problem.
I think what everyone is getting at is, you may not be setup to cut the blanks but if you want to do this at scale you will have to print or be able to cut some sort of template or jig to accurately line up and print a full table of precut sign blanks at once...
only the most expensive printers will sense and align to your substrate automatically...if you cant cut material for patterns/jigs you will have to painstakingly line up those full tables of signs by hand and hope to hell its all straight and nothing moves...or babysit smaller more manageable runs...

 

[signheremd]

We are looking to move to a True Flatbed, we have looked into these 3 models as what looks like our best options.

EFI Pro 30f
TRUFIRE LT/X2
Vanguard Digital VK300D-HS



In terms of what we will be using it for,
Caldera Rip software
approx 100-300 12"x18" .063 or .040 aluminum blanks a day,
we also do some sizes as small as 7"x10" but that's a small percent.
We will also be using them to do sheets of material but are mostly concerned with the day to day use when printing on the alum blanks.

our main concern is ease of use in terms of printing large amounts of individual jobs onto alum blanks,

Is it going to be easier to nest the jobs in pre-set layouts that fill a full bed in caldera or should we send over individual signs and fill out the jobs from the printer side?

Most of what we have seen online for these 3 printers has been about printing the same job on sheets over and over,but that is pretty far from how we will be using them actually.

Does anyone have one of these models that is using it more like we will be?

how easy is it to load a full table with blanks ?
how many tables full of jobs can you lay out and print per hour usually?
Do you use a jig for larger sizes too like the 12x18? at what size do you think a jig is useful?


any drawbacks to any of them? things that are a consistent headache about it for you?

Any insight is greatly appreciated, thank you for your help.

We use a FluidColor R84 Turbo with Gen 6 Ricoh heads - a 4'x8' true flatbed printer. We arrange the signs in Flexi, send over a Jig with just a printed outline and then use that to align the blanks and then print with a second file of the actual signs laid out in the exact same pattern. The machine uses a vacuum to hold the pieces down in place. You can run 20 pieces 12x18 in each run and peel the masking off the next 20. When we have big runs, we buy the substrate cut to size from our supplier.

 

[JimHjr73]

If your using blanks, in your design software make a file as many outlined blanks you can on the bed. Then print the outlines directly onto the bed. Use those outlines to line up the blanks, scrape off the ink when done.

I do this on my Mimaki jfx200-2513ex, however, I do no not print directly on the bed. I cover the bed with transfer mask with a very light adhesive. Then I print all the outlines on that, then using a top sheet cutter I cut the area out inside the outline to expose the suction holes and line my blanks up that way. Printing directly on the table caused problems with ink flakes plugging up the suction holes. The top sheet cutter has not scratched the bed. I usually don't print more than the OP is looking to do and much smaller like 2x6".

 

[Mrkopr]

We use a Mimaki UJF 6042 both new and an old one. We print on pre-treated for UV ink aluminum sheets and print with hairline cut lines then chop them up on a Accucuter air assist guillotine shearer. With our pre-cut items such as brass plates for trophies and plaques we create a jig using chip board, one piece laser cut for plates then sticking it on top of a uncut sheet and place the plates in the jig, that way is a hassle and consumes a-lot of time. Also if you are looking for a pre-treat for aluminum stainless steel and glass. Boston is the best I have found for the price. Stuff is great https://bostonindustrialsolutions.com/

 

[artifacture]

I print all the outlines on that, then using a top sheet cutter I cut the area out inside the outline to expose the suction holes and line my blanks up that way.

Can you tell me what this cutter is? I'm not familiar.

 

[White Haus]

Can you tell me what this cutter is? I'm not familiar.

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