Best print quality printer

[Boyanski]

Hi,
yesterday was on a show / C!Print Madrid, Spain/ looking for a printer and to compare and view some in real life.

I have read a lot on forums and have experience with Canon and HP large photo printers. And apart from signmaker i am a professional photographer.

I have a small sign shop, cnc machines and stuff.

I wanted to see the HP latex in action. I wanted to see the Chinese printers. I wanted to see the Chinese UV printers.

So here are my thoughts:

The latest Roland TrueVIS VG-640 printer was the best quality wise and impact wise printer on the show. By a mile. Yep, better than the Epson solvent printers. And i confirmed this by asking people with no photographic experience at all, or any printing experience.

Second on quality were the Epson and the Mutoh, i would say the Mutoh was a tad better. It could be used as a true printer for sign making and photography at the same time. I am Impressed by all Mutoh printers quality print even i have read on forums people think they are lower level than the Rolands and the Mimaki

The cheap Chinese printer was printing very good and very impacting colors, using super cheap ink. 3rd place after the Mutoh and the Epson. I am impressed here again.

The Mimaki did not impress me at all, except their super large 3m printer.

The Chinese UV printers. The large format ones. Ink was not perfectly, no, no...

The Chinese UV printers 8 colors A3+ and similar. Oh, yeah. They have now transparent lacquer and prints were same as the Mimaki at half the price


The HP latex. Meh. I have mixed feelings about this one. I was going to pull the trigger for a second hand HP260 as i am a one man shop mostly, so the lamination talk and stuff.

All that stupid talk about scratch resistance, and so on... The HP Latex from the smallest to the largest printed good but the print even on the shiniest vinyl looked like shit. So i took a better look. Yes there was the resolution, acceptable even for photos.The colors were good. Then why did not look good??? Even on the shiniest vinyl the print looked somehow pale and burned. and that in contrast with the shiny vinyl looked bad.
Ok i checked the scratch resistance on all the printers, as they were printing constantly and prints were on the floor. The eco solvent gloss vinyl had perfect scratch resistance even right from the machine. When good inks and brand name media was used. I couldn't scratch it with a coin and i tried, under the judging stares of the vendors


So that are my thoughts. I dont have the work for the Roland trueVis 640 otherwise would have bought it at the very instant. Most of all now i have mixed feelings about the Latex printers. I may buy one due to need as FAST & CHEAP SIGNS is the name of the small town where i live, but this lack of impact of the print is seriously bothering me. The cheap heads are the plus.


The only thing i could not see is the MImaki UVI in action, but as i am disappointed from the cheap UVI links on the chinese UVI machine that were not dry enough and i have read the UVI is more expensive on inks and wastage, i will leave that for another time to consider.

What do you say?

 

[jfiscus]

Also, as a photographer you need to include the lifespan on the inks into your equation if you're selling prints off of your printer.
I'd never ever recommend a latex to a photographer as they are "production" machines and the small details on them are pretty bad once the head starts degrading or you run lower passes.
I'm not sure who is showing you what exactly off their printers, but I recommend the Epson 60600 over the Roland 640 quality and longevity-wise.
I researched all of the printers available before we made our choice to stick with Epson this last time.

 

[BigfishDM]

Look at the Swiss Q machines

 

[Boyanski]

Also, as a photographer you need to include the lifespan on the inks into your equation if you're selling prints off of your printer.
I'd never ever recommend a latex to a photographer as they are "production" machines and the small details on them are pretty bad once the head starts degrading or you run lower passes.
I'm not sure who is showing you what exactly off their printers, but I recommend the Epson 60600 over the Roland 640 quality and longevity-wise.
I researched all of the printers available before we made our choice to stick with Epson this last time.

I printed bvefore photography on Canon IPF8100 and now on my friends HP, all 12 inks printers. But now i have a small shop and into signs and not so much job to justify having separate printers. And i need a printer for signage and vehicles. An all arounder.Thats why i wanted to see the latex.
I mean if someone drops to the shop to be able to print him a photo, if a photographer drops and needs a photo i will use my friend that have a photo studio and nice HP Z something photo printer with color calibration. But i would like to be able to sell also to my friends clients when they need their photos for some outside print

 

[HulkSmash]

yeah, get a Roland if you want a tech in your shop every 2 weeks.

 

[ColorCrest]

The latest Roland TrueVIS VG-640 printer was the best quality wise and impact wise printer on the show. By a mile. Yep, better than the Epson solvent printers. And i confirmed this by asking people with no photographic experience at all, or any printing experience.

I'm guessing you've compared the extended ink set Roland to a lowly 4/C Epson. Get prints samples from the Epson 60800, which is also an extended ink set, in your hands

 

[Boyanski]

I'm guessing you've compared the extended ink set Roland to a lowly 4/C Epson. Get prints samples from the Epson 60800, which is also an extended ink set, in your hands

I guess when one company goes an event that's happening only once per year in whole Europe/ 2 times actually, different countries/, said company should show its best. Hence its Epson UltraChrome GS3 Inks. I did not look into that at the moment but there were like 8 printers from Epson at the show, official stand and resellers. And i looked each one of them to check the quality. Colors simply were not that bright. The Rolands/ there were a couple of them/ were like almost printing with fluor inks / they were not/.

I am not saying Epsons weren't good, but the Rolands printed more vivid by the mile. Cleverer combination with the media? I dont know. And i am not speaking about over saturated. More Vivid.
Like comparing cheap HDR made from 1 photo in JPG and pro HDR made from 5 photos shot in RAW

 

[Gino]

You should take YOUR files to several distributors and see what happens on the various machines. At these shows, they are using the absolute best files on the planet. Some people are just better at creating a catchy looking gimmick. Kinda the idea behind signs..... how can I make people look at my sign/printer more than the competition's ??

 

[ColorCrest]

You should take YOUR files to several distributors and see what happens on the various machines.

+1

 

[jfiscus]

I do NOT recommend the extended ink colors from Epson at all. Most of those colors fade out within 6 months to a year of UV exposure, turning your reds "pink" and other unwanted issues. They are NOT warranted like the other colors for longevity. No other company warrants those other colors either. I'm assuming any printer at a tradeshow was just set up brand new for that event and the RIP was set up brand new also, so true color calibration was never achieved on any printer so you don't see all of the capabilities that are possible. And then they only print certain "approved" files to showcase special features they're trying to push on that particular model.

 

[Boyanski]

I live in a 330 days a year sunshine coastal town in Spain, so anything is crap after 1 year anyway. Even laminated. Surface temperature is 85-90C in summer so...

Next time will go with my image on USB. In reality as i said i have a very cheap public, so the better the price- the better. Don't have many discerning customers that will pay me a 20k printer.

What i said above the quality is not to say whos best, but just sharing my impressions from the show.

And i looked into the DTG. Simply said- the more expensive=the better quality. Epson again had crappy presentation, Texjet also. Ricoh 1000 definitely was the best consumer printer. And yeah, the Kornit and the A????, they were beasts.

 

[ColorCrest]

I do NOT recommend the extended ink colors from Epson at all. Most of those colors fade out within 6 months to a year of UV exposure, turning your reds "pink" and other unwanted issues. They are NOT warranted like the other colors for longevity. No other company warrants those other colors either.

Do you care to explain your unfortunate experience, exactly, such as which of "those colors," UV exposure type (south-face?), 6 months of which seasons, media, substrate, laminate brand / variety, square footage of failed project(s), "other unwanted issues," etc.

Doing so may help others avoid the same scenario.

 

[Signed Out]

I do NOT recommend the extended ink colors from Epson at all. Most of those colors fade out within 6 months to a year of UV exposure, turning your reds "pink" and other unwanted issues. They are NOT warranted like the other colors for longevity. No other company warrants those other colors either. I'm assuming any printer at a tradeshow was just set up brand new for that event and the RIP was set up brand new also, so true color calibration was never achieved on any printer so you don't see all of the capabilities that are possible. And then they only print certain "approved" files to showcase special features they're trying to push on that particular model.

Do you have any pics of these fading issues?

 

[P Wagner]

Do you care to explain your unfortunate experience, exactly, such as which of "those colors," UV exposure type (south-face?), 6 months of which seasons, media, substrate, laminate brand / variety, square footage of failed project(s), "other unwanted issues," etc.

Doing so may help others avoid the same scenario.

Another relevant question to ponder might be directed to 3M, as to why GS3 and TR2 Orange, Red, Metallic, and White inks are expressly non-warranted for any duration under the 3M MCS Warranty, while CMYKcmk inks are covered - see attachments

 

[jfiscus]

Do you have any pics of these fading issues?

Yes, we most certainly did when we used a profile on our Epson S70675 that included those inks. (Epson kindly informed us they didn't care) We changed our profiles immediately and dealt with the consequences.
We went with the S60600 with MCS inks for our upgrades here to have warranted inks.

 

[jfiscus]

Do you care to explain your unfortunate experience, exactly, such as which of "those colors," UV exposure type (south-face?), 6 months of which seasons, media, substrate, laminate brand / variety, square footage of failed project(s), "other unwanted issues," etc.

Doing so may help others avoid the same scenario.

The Orange specifically, also the "light" colors. Fading within 6 months on vehicles, signs, etc. All 3M 180c with 8519/8518/8520 laminates.

 

[Signed Out]

The Orange specifically, also the "light" colors. Fading within 6 months on vehicles, signs, etc. All 3M 180c with 8519/8518/8520 laminates.

Thanks for posting the pics. How long in between pictures of that van?

First thing we did when we got our s80 was print blocks of color for each ink, a few test samples, laminated and unlaminted. They have been on a roof for about 3 months now. Will pull some down and compare to the control pieces which are stored in the shop.

We haven't been running Red or Orange for outdoor work yet, but hoping these GS3 inks prove more durable that what was in the s70. Because the prints look awesome when using all the inks.

Would you say it was mostly the orange that gave you fading issues? You mention the "light" inks also, but they are still covered by warranty?

 

[Boyanski]

This looks very bad for a couple of months. In my climate this will happen in a week or two then. I wonder what about if was sealed using Marabu sealer for car vinyl

 

[TimToad]

This looks very bad for a couple of months. In my climate this will happen in a week or two then. I wonder what about if was sealed using Marabu sealer for car vinyl

Seriously? A couple of weeks with laminated prints on decent media?

We're in a 300+ annual sun day, high UV region and now have over 5 years of examples to gauge fading from and we're not seeing anything remotely similar off a 10 year old Roland VP-540 that we're about to replace. We have a ton of work out there that even with western and southern exposure isn't showing anywhere near as much fading as some of the examples I've seen in this thread.

Right now we're reading this thread with great curiosity and hoping it helps us make a well informed decision on what printer to buy.

 

[BigfishDM]

Seriously? A couple of weeks with laminated prints on decent media?

We're in a 300+ annual sun day, high UV region and now have over 5 years of examples to gauge fading from and we're not seeing anything remotely similar off a 10 year old Roland VP-540 that we're about to replace. We have a ton of work out there that even with western and southern exposure isn't showing anywhere near as much fading as some of the examples I've seen in this thread.

Right now we're reading this thread with great curiosity and hoping it helps us make a well informed decision on what printer to buy.

Well I would say, stay away from those Epsons!