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Bypass pinch roller detection ?

autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
So I finally found a way to add a 3rd pinch roller to my Summa D75 . Issue is it will detect the first available roller that it can see. Is there a way or is there something I can remove on the pinch roller assembly of the one I want to add ?
 
PHILJOHNSON

PHILJOHNSON

Sales Manager
Are you trying to have the cutter recognize the new roller or something else? If you are trying to have the cutter recognize the third roller there is a process for that but if you are trying to modify the assembly to get it to fit on the cutter that will be a lot more challenging. If you can clarify what you're trying to accomplish I will do my best to help out.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112(office)
(509)280-6354(cell)
philj@airmark.com
 
PHILJOHNSON

PHILJOHNSON

Sales Manager
Did you try installing the media select kit(395-426 is the Summa part number) on the SummaCut machine? If so, the detection sensor on those functions differently and will not work correctly on the SummaCut(SummaCut face up and S2 face forward). Not sure if there is a way to turn off the roller detection but I will run it by my tech team and see if they have any ideas.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112(office)
(509)280-6354(cell)
philj@airmark.com
 
autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
Thanks , there must be something that detects it .. Could be some type of laser sensor

399-307 is the one I need .
 
PHILJOHNSON

PHILJOHNSON

Sales Manager
The 399-307 is the part number for the outside rollers on the SummaCut machines but the 399-308 is for the middle rollers. I looked at the compatibility info for those part numbers and it only lists the D120-R, D140-R, and the D160-R so that could also be why things aren't working correctly. Tech also confirmed that they have never installed the 399-307(or any additional pinch rollers for that matter) on a D75 and my tech guys have been working on Summa cutters for decades now(we used to own and operate Summa as you may already know). They strongly suggested not installing the roller but I would be curious to find out if come up with a solution to get things to work correctly.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112(office)
(509)280-6354(cell)
philj@airmark.com
 
autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
PHILJOHNSON said:
The 399-307 is the part number for the outside rollers on the SummaCut machines but the 399-308 is for the middle rollers. I looked at the compatibility info for those part numbers and it only lists the D120-R, D140-R, and the D160-R so that could also be why things aren't working correctly. Tech also confirmed that they have never installed the 399-307(or any additional pinch rollers for that matter) on a D75 and my tech guys have been working on Summa cutters for decades now(we used to own and operate Summa as you may already know). They strongly suggested not installing the roller but I would be curious to find out if come up with a solution to get things to work correctly.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112(office)
(509)280-6354(cell)
philj@airmark.com
Click to expand...

Yes I agree , I know its not a cutter you can normally ad a roller to ... but I looked at it and found a way .. it's just picking it up. middle roller is needed as I get deep scratches from the rotation of the blade moving across the parts. If I only knew how the head was detecting that roller I would be SET !
 
Saturn

Saturn

Your Ad Here!
As far as I can tell (on my S2T), there's a little diode sensor that sits on the back of the head and travels along with it that is then blocked by a tab on the pinch roller as it goes past. I'm not sure it wouldn't produce negative results, but I assume you could just hack it (the tab on the pinch roller itself) off and the plotter would not know the pinch roller was there. It's a close fit to begin with, so gluing it back on or repairing it would take a committed soul... I wouldn't do it except as a last resort... But hey, tinkers gonna tinker.

Oop, and that made me think to point out that if you wanted to run this as a middle roller, you might be wise to remove one of the two tension springs deeper inside the whole thing. There's the two easily visible springs that are for raising and lowering things, don't touch those, but then there should be two more that you can see if you look upward from below in the back. Hard to describe exactly where they are, but you should be able to unhook one and just leave it where it is, and if you need to reattach it you can use a spring puller or even a weeding pick to guide it back into place. If you leave it full pressure you will most likely get pretty noticeable marks on the material.

Also, take everything I am saying with a grain of salt. I'm not a tech, these are just my own observations.
 

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  • pinchrollertab2.jpg
    pinchrollertab2.jpg
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Last edited:
autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
Saturn said:
As far as I can tell (on my S2T), there's a little diode sensor that sits on the back of the head and travels along with it that is then blocked by a tab on the pinch roller as it goes past. I'm not sure it wouldn't produce negative results, but I assume you could just hack it (the tab on the pinch roller itself) off and the plotter would not know the pinch roller was there. It's a close fit to begin with, so gluing it back on or repairing it would take a committed soul... I wouldn't do it except as a last resort... But hey, tinkers gonna tinker.
Click to expand...


HAHAHA , so funny you say this .. I just sat at my cutter and stared at it with my reading glassed on from the front side then the rear ... I can see a small eye pass over the 2 tabs that I have an actually pause to read each time.. once I saw that I said BINGO !! that is what it is ..

Tomorrow I will remove the side cover and make sure I can get to the parts to ad the 3rd , or ever 4th roller assembly !!!
 
Saturn

Saturn

Your Ad Here!
autoexebat said:
HAHAHA , so funny you say this .. I just sat at my cutter and started at it with my reading glassed on from the front side then the rear ... I can see a small eye pass over the 2 tabs that I have an actually pause to read each time.. once I saw that I said BINGO !! that is what it is ..

Tomorrow I will remove the side cover and make sure I can get to the parts to ad the 3rd , or ever 4th roller assembly !!!
Click to expand...

There's a couple other slight differences between the outside and middle rollers, so you may end up still getting a few surprises—And I assume since the Summa has the sensors in the first place that there IS a good reason it wants to know how many you have, you might be able to come back and let us know what that is after all this. ;p Good luck though!!
 
autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
I'm only adding it for extra support while cutting thicker material . I don't think Summa wants to market a low budget cutter that has the option to add more pinch rollers . If I got a cutter to do exactly what I need it would cost thousand more. The sensors are basically there for a stop / stop point . If the added pinch roller isn't seen it should not be an issue at all .

Now I just have to take some time to get it apart so I can see how easily it can be added to the rail system. I may take a video tomorrow so I can help others depending how far I get .

As far as the few surprises , It's well worth it for me to at least try this way vs spending 5 grand and taking this $3000 purchase and tossing it .
 
autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
UPDATE= tore it down , 1 pinch roller is removed !! So far so good . ( I removed it as I wanted to make sure I could get a new one installed . I may go for 4 on this machine .
 
S

SNpromoNL

New Member
IMO, the plotter firmware probably only expects to find 2 rollers and then won't proceed to go looking for a third (outer) or a fourth one.
It will also most likely think the media placed is too small for the job everytime.

Just a guess.
 
FrankW

FrankW

New Member
There is a possibility in the service mode of the cutter to told it that he have to count an additional pinch roller.
 
autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
Saturn said:
As far as I can tell (on my S2T), there's a little diode sensor that sits on the back of the head and travels along with it that is then blocked by a tab on the pinch roller as it goes past. I'm not sure it wouldn't produce negative results, but I assume you could just hack it (the tab on the pinch roller itself) off and the plotter would not know the pinch roller was there. It's a close fit to begin with, so gluing it back on or repairing it would take a committed soul... I wouldn't do it except as a last resort... But hey, tinkers gonna tinker.

Oop, and that made me think to point out that if you wanted to run this as a middle roller, you might be wise to remove one of the two tension springs deeper inside the whole thing. There's the two easily visible springs that are for raising and lowering things, don't touch those, but then there should be two more that you can see if you look upward from below in the back. Hard to describe exactly where they are, but you should be able to unhook one and just leave it where it is, and if you need to reattach it you can use a spring puller or even a weeding pick to guide it back into place. If you leave it full pressure you will most likely get pretty noticeable marks on the material.

Also, take everything I am saying with a grain of salt. I'm not a tech, these are just my own observations.
Click to expand...

My roller setup only has 2 springs on it , but luckily from what I remember it doesn't even leave marks outside the crop marks . I use this machine only to cut thick material and its the same exact size each time. After taking it all apart last night I really see no issues of why this won't work , but I will report back as soon as I get the parts !!!
 
Saturn

Saturn

Your Ad Here!
FrankW said:
There is a possibility in the service mode of the cutter to told it that he have to count an additional pinch roller.
Click to expand...

So this probably should have been our first question. Have you tried simply adding an extra roller in service mode? If that worked it would probably negate any physical tinkering... P

Attached is the guide for S and S2 machines, but maybe it would give you the language needed to make the changes on yours?
 

Attachments

  • Summa_ExtraPinchWheelSetup2.pdf
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autoexebat

autoexebat

New Member
I feel some of you in here are not quite understanding what I am doing. I am adding a pinch roller to a machine ( D75 ) that does not offer a pinch roller upgrade option. They sell this machine as a basic 2 roller setup and thats it .. no questions asked. I do NOT want it to be detected on the middle roller as it will stop there , I need it to reach the 2 outer rollers only.
 
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