Calendared + Cast combinations?

[MikePro]

Always been using suggested materials/overlams, and I'm always looking for a less expensive alternative to 3M products, but I'm looking in a catalog that says this calendared white trans. from Oracal (3850) is recommended for use with a CAST overlaminate (290)?

i've always heard its possible to mix-match, but only 1-way... such as cast overlam on calandered print but not vice-versa. but why?

cant i just use the regular calendared Oraguard 210 overlam for this calendared Orajet 3850 white trans? or should I pay more for the cast overlam as suggested?

 

[WB]

Some of the newer higher end Cal. vinyl behave alot like cast that's probably why then recommend using a cast Lam. Depending on your application I'd think a 210 or 215 would work.

 

[MikePro]

sweet thanks... yeah, up til I just read that suggestion in the catalog I've been using the oracal white trans with the 210 lam. (both calendared) for mall directories that I change annually. Never any issue, but never hurts to think ahead

 

[petesign]

Cast vinyl is poured to shape, calendared is stretched, so it will contract. If you cover a calendared vinyl with cast, it's supposed to be okay. If you cover a cast vinyl with a calendared laminate, it will shrink off of the print, or shrink and pull the print with it. I guess the theory is the cast laminate will keep the calendared vinyl under it from shrinking.

Speaking of things that shrink at different rates.. we had an interesting thing happen here in town - we have a large cast iron statue that represents the roaring iron industry in the history of Birmingham. In the 70's they filled it with concrete to make it more "stable" on the base. Iron and concrete shrink at different rates from heat and cold. The statue eventually started cracking apart at the seams from the pressure as it shrunk against the concrete. Amazing what people don't consider, isn't it?

They have since redone the statue and removed the concrete..

 

[MikePro]

on that note, however... i'm correct in assuming its ok to put cast overlam on a calendared vinyl but not vice versa?

(via physics of the calendared shrinks over time but the cast does not, therefore wouldn't cast laminate keep calendared holding its shape to an extent?... which is why i usually wrap MDO with economy calendared vinyl or when I have to trim higher end projects to the edge of panels, i then use cast hp material)
p.s. i know i should just search the forums, since this is most likely a dead-horse topic... but i must LOVE boosting my threadcount

 

[MikePro]

osnap, thanks pete
you beat me to my last post.

we have a large cast iron statue that represents the roaring iron industry in the history of Birmingham. In the 70's they filled it with concrete to make it more "stable" on the base. Iron and concrete shrink at different rates from heat and cold. The statue eventually started cracking apart at the seams from the pressure as it shrunk against the concrete. Amazing what people don't consider, isn't it?

They have since redone the statue and removed the concrete..

i like it! good comparison

 

[signswi]

210 or 200 onto 3850. You can put cast lam over calendared vinyl but it's not a great idea, though not as bad an idea as the opposite. Match cast to cast, calendared to calendared.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I wouldn't use 200 on 3850, we did once in a pinch and it came back within two months. 200 is a low end calendered, it's only rated for 2 years and has minimal UV inhibitors in it. Since then we've always stuck to cast laminate on 3850 translucent to be safe.

 

[signswi]

We've never had a problem with 210, don't even stock 200 but I thought I'd throw it out there. No returns we can think of and we use the 210/3850 combo for some very large international brands who would definitely be all over us if something was up. Cast over calendared with time the two will move against each other differently as they react to UV and heat differently, greater chance of problems than matching. You want two materials that will react the same, but if you have to do it for some reason cast over calendared isn't nearly as bad as the reverse.

 

[TheSnowman]

I hardly ever have a use for calendared lam, and always just use cast lam if I have to laminate something calendered. I've never had any issues. If it's an option, and you are doing a lot, I suppose you should match what they recommend, but long as you layer the cast on top, I would think you'd have minimal issues compared to the other direction.

 

[John Butto]

Oraguard 215

When using Oracal 3850 I always have used this laminate and that is also what Oracal suggest.