Channel Letter Cleanup

[JAMEY]

I have a customer that wants me to clean up their Channel letters and replace the plywood backings on them. This would be a first for me. It is 6 letters that are 1.5' tall by maybe 20 feet wide all together. They are about 15 feet up on the side of the building. It appears the red faces are oxidized. He also wants the gold colored channels cleaned a little. They look pretty decent actually.

Maybe just charge labor and materials...but I have no idea how long it will take. Especially if I run into any problems. The customer wants a price. I was thinking about telling him it will just be an hourly rate plus any materials I use.

How would you go about / bid this repair job?

 

[J Hill Designs]

T&M straight up - estimate high if he needs a price, and let him know it is a high estimate...

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

all my ALARMS are going off.

do you have the knowledge to service, repair and REPLACE (hint hint) electrical signs?
are you licenesed to service, repair, and REPLACE (hint hint) electrical signs?

if the answer to those questions is no, you will be doing your customer and yourself a huge favor to find a local company who you can refer them to.

if the answer to those questions is yes.....well i just don't think the answer to this question is yes. you are going to run into problems..the highly successful electrical sign service companies are great because they are skilled troubleshooters. if you do not have the time and experience doing this type of work, again, you will be doing yourself and your client a HUGE favor by refering the work to someone who knows how to do the work.

 

[Marlene]

sounds like you will be removing the existing neon from the wood backing and re-installing it onto new wood backings plus making new faces with trim cap for the cans. ever done any of that before? just making the faces alone takes talent and know how to do. just cleaning would be one thing but it sounds more like a reconstruction project. do you have plans for repairing or making new neon for any you break re-doing these letters? is it neon or LED? if neon, finding a bender isn't all that easy.

 

[Mosh]

Pass on it, sounds like you are not experienced enough will channel letters to do it.

 

[Mainframe]

tink!-Do you know what that sound is?, Here is a hint, it is an expensive sound & has something to do with removing old neon tubes. I recommend you pass on this one, you will be dodging a bullet for sure.

 

[signage]

tink!-Do you know what that sound is?

The sound of hundred dollar bills for replacement Neon! Now what do I win!

 

[Marlene]

tink!-Do you know what that sound is?,

actually it's more like "tink...f*#@ &^%@#"

 

[JAMEY]

Thanks guys. I will outsource this part then. No need to tell me twice. Sounds pretty tricky.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

YEAH! BIG CLAPPING MAD PROPS and all that stuff. I am so proud of someone with enough sense to listen...I'm not being sarcastic Jamey it is just that NO ONE ever listens and then they end up in over their head losing money on a project they were warned not to touch.

Right On...

 

[daveb]

YEAH! BIG CLAPPING MAD PROPS and all that stuff. I am so proud of someone with enough sense to listen...I'm not being sarcastic Jamey it is just that NO ONE ever listens and then they end up in over their head losing money on a project they were warned not to touch.

Right On...

Three thumbs up on listening to reason. Now... I've yet to see a decent refurb job that didn't end up costing half to three quarters of the price of a new set of letters. Sell up big guy, if you're talking new backs, possibly new faces and trim-cap, heck all you're saving is the returns and the neon. You'll probably have a lot more labor involved in a refurb than a new set of letters. Just sayin' think about it.

 

[skyhigh]

Three thumbs up on listening to reason. Now... I've yet to see a decent refurb job that didn't end up costing half to three quarters of the price of a new set of letters. Sell up big guy, if you're talking new backs, possibly new faces and trim-cap, heck all you're saving is the returns and the neon. You'll probably have a lot more labor involved in a refurb than a new set of letters. Just sayin' think about it.

That the best advice you are going to get on the subject!!!! New backs, faces & trim.....yep more labor cost than just installing new.

actually it's more like "tink...f*#@ &^%@#"[/QUOTE]

:ROFLMAO: yep, thats the sound!!!

 

[SAS]

"Channel letters and replace the plywood backings on them"

Why dose channel letters have "wood" backs on them? These must have been made before the welder was invented.

 

[John L]

Jamie,

Work a relationship with a shop that does electric and set a finders fee for the repair (probably will turn into replacement) work. We have several local shops that we do this with. I would recommend typing up a single page agreement that states your expected percentage or fee, and include a reasonably worded non-compete clause in regards to the particular client.

Many states have specific laws that exclude you from selling repair services for electric signs (or selling new electric signs) but you can likely still legally profit with a referral fee arrangement and a minimal effort.

Even just scrubbing and polishing the faces, in place, you risk internal breakage and you dont want to be the last guy out there before the fire occured.

 

[skyhigh]

Jamie,

you dont want to be the last guy out there before the fire occured.

Ok, I take back what I said before.....this is the best advice you have received so far....:ROFLMAO:

John L brought up some very good points. Another being, the "non compete" agreement.

Way to go John

 

[Mosh]

I changed my mind DO IT, don't be a sissy!!!!! LOL

 

[J Hill Designs]

I would guess it is the plywood fascia that the letters are mounted on...

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

well i was avoiding the specific conversation about the construction of this sign because i didnt want to plant any ideas in the OP's head..i just wanted him to listen to commonsense and pass on this project..and apparently he is.

Jhill i have seen more hack job channel letter jobs than i care to remember where the back of each letter is plywood ...YIKES... it is the only indicator that i have ever needed to tell a client that service and repair is not an option and that the only way i would work on it is to REPLACE it.

i have seen more single sided cabinets than i care to remember where the backside is plywood...

both of these make zero sense to me because the cost of materials to do it right is not a big factor.

the new trend i am seeing more and more is illuminated 'cabinets' made entirely out of wood...i recently spotted one being hung by a sign company (a quicky sticky type shop) that was constructed of 2" X 10" lumber lol with the faces cut to the OD of the frame and then simply screwed into the 2X10's instead of retainer, i mean why not? if you are going to do a hack job go all the way. my biggest laugh was that they were taking great pride in this .. uhm... sign after they attached the faces they applied approx 4" vinyl stripes over their screws to create a 'border' on the sign...installed the sign between two 6X6 posts set in concrete with the top of the sign at about 8' off the ground so there might be 2' in the ground..doesnt matter either way, it is just one of the most incredible hack jobs i have ever seen...but they truly took pride in the construction, painted the 'cabinet' and posts white after installation.

there is some FRIGHTENING work being performed out there..when people in the industry get frustrated when we start talking about a self regulating professional organization to implement a system of ensuring that minimum standards are maintained...it is situations like this..where you think it must be a typo NO one would ever use plywood for the backer of a channel letter? oh yes they would ... and they do....

 

[John L]

Sorry I didnt mention. But actually we have taken down some 9' tall Sears channel letters that had a wood composite back and the metal side returns were wrapped around it. The signs were originally made by a major, national, electric sign company.. I can only guess, maybe back in the 70's. I dont remember if they were labeled or not.

We have junked all that stuff now but I remember looking at how the back sheets were made because I found it so strange. These had a 1/2" plywood core and a thin galvanized looking mill finish metal on the inside that was textured kind of like the white "FRP" panels they use in commercial kitchens nowadays. The back side was laminated with a smooth galvanized sheet of similar thickness.

This doesnt support why someone would make an 18" letter this way but I don't necessarily think these national guys cheaped out, I think maybe this was their method of making the huge letters more rigid and much less prone to glass breakage during delivery and installations, many, many miles away. Flex = breakage.

 

[Mainframe]

I just did a LED conversion on some HUGE Honda letters that had wood backing, good to get the neon out, the letters just glow at night & the customer is nuts about them.