Cloud Software - What do you use?

[WildWestDesigns]

keeping in mind that DVDs are following CDs and Tape and Zip Drives and Floppy Discs down the path to obsolescence.

I just got a 3.5 floppy disk with a jpg file on it today to do some embroidery pattern work. I nearly busted a gut laughing at that. Luckily I had a business card that I could pull the logo from. That guy must have had the sign shop do it a long time ago, because I haven't used a floppy disk in quite time, been even longer on the disks that were actually floppy (5" and even the what was it, 25" too, the real big ones?).

 

[signswi]

When I first took this job the 2005 and earlier files were on some weird Iomega format high density microformat that existed for all of 5 minutes and the 'discs' failed due to bad writes from corrupted drivers (drivers no longer available from Iomega) when access was attempted. Obsolescence is a hidden danger in relying on physical backup systems for anything other than short-term. Needless to say I overhauled the data systems as one of my first actions, getting at least a baseline up (RAID 5 fileserver for all data, workstations imaged and images updated nightly, offsite backup of all data and disc images).

Still blows me away that I get a customer once or twice a month tell me they don't have an email address. My mind melts a little bit each time. Email has been around since 1972, with precursors in place at MIT as early as '65!

 

[Mike F]

some weird Iomega format high density microformat that existed for all of 5 minutes

zip or jaz?

 

[Techman]

I have my own "cloud". But I wouldn't call it a cloud. Its just using LAN plus FTP to do it all.
I use every machine in the place to house backups. Each machine is a node on the backup circuit. Each has its own backup on an extra drive within it and on two other machines.

Its all controlled by a good old backup software that schedules it all every other day to all other machines in the place. I've been doing it like this for 15 years. All I have to do is check the backup file once in a while to make sure it is being updated.

Also it is setup to FTP to my home office a back file of only updated info. Its all automatic and best of all its FREE.

I been using genie backup software since it first came out. So there we have it. No need to pay $49 bux a month for offsite data storage.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I think it was zip. I remember those Iomega drives. I don't recall our ever using them even though we had the drives.

 

[Mike F]

I do have to confess, I use the Backup to Dropbox Wordpress plugin to keep our website backed up. Backs up all my WP files, plugins, and database to a Dropbox account every day at 3AM, then when I come in in the morning I open up the Dropbox application on my laptop and sync it up. That's the only "cloud" storage I use though.

 

[signswi]

zip or jaz?

Neither. REV. Zip/Jaz were way more common (and a bit earlier). REV was a small squarish mechanical HD cart with densities of 35GB.

I do have to confess, I use the Backup to Dropbox Wordpress plugin to keep our website backed up. Backs up all my WP files, plugins, and database to a Dropbox account every day at 3AM, then when I come in in the morning I open up the Dropbox application on my laptop and sync it up. That's the only "cloud" storage I use though.

Check out VaultPress, it's a bit pricey but well worth it and has some additional features (security audits, etc.). Nothing wrong with your method though and pretty good practice. Many people forget to do website backups.

 

[Mike F]

Neither. REV. Zip/Jaz were way more common (and a bit earlier). REV was a small squarish mechanical HD cart with densities of 35GB.




Check out VaultPress, it's a bit pricey but well worth it and has some additional features (security audits, etc.). Nothing wrong with your method though and pretty good practice. Many people forget to do website backups.

Yea, I've seen VaultPress before, I doubt the higher ups would spring for it though. Our online store is gonna be run through our Kodak Insite Storefront from an SSL server, and our newsletter list is kept on chimpmail.com, so there's not really any sensitive information on the web server anyway.

 

[signswi]

Audits are less about sensitive information and more about avoiding exploits, but yeah VaultPress is a bit overkill if you aren't doing six figure uniques. Pricepoint is just too high. Also I think you mean mailchimp , one of my favorite services. Great example of SaaS.

 

[CES020]

Just had a thought. What is all this "critical data" that we can't live without? For us, it's graphic files. Years of them. However, we don't repeat much of any of it, so if we lost every graphic file we ever had today, we'd still be in good shape. The stuff we do isn't complex on the graphics side, so no big deal. I'm sure it's different for different people.

So what else? Our emails? Yeah, would be an inconvenience, but not something we couldn't deal with. Our accounting? That would probably hurt a little, but backups of that are taken off site on a regular basis.

All in all, I'm not real sure that if we lost it all today that it would cause too much pain.

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

It's about efficiency and specialization (more time for you to do what you do well).

Well said Jesse, and I couldn't agree more. Cloud software, mobile apps and SaaS systems are really there to help make what you currently do more efficient. For me these tools are important to help me manage my way of life. For others not so much. This is especially true with SignVOX as I like sitting at the breakfast counter enjoying coffee and managing the days start or browsing the stats on my iPad. Its a lot more fun that way.

The integration of bandwidth and business is here to stay and I'd rather be surfing it than rolling in it. Thanks for the GetSatisfaction mention looks great.

I love the argument against not using the cloud for everything. "What if the business was hit by a natural disaster so large that it wiped out the entire business, your home, your bank, and everywhere else you stored your data".

Yeah, that happens a lot.........I guess......

If my business is wiped out, my home is gone, my bank is gone, then probably most all of my customers are gone too, so I think I''ll cross that bridge when I get there.

I'm fine with the cloud for our business as long as it's not "mission critical". If the server goes down or our internet is out for some reason, I must be able to continue running my business. That would mean quoting, and job information for work in progress. If I lose that ability by an outside force I have no control over, then I'll pass.

Not that they happen a lot but it does happen..a little extreme of an argument for cloud based software but valid non the less. Just ask victims of disasters of recent memory.

As for the servers failing, in our case, data is backed up in 3 different locations so i suppose they could fail all at the same time...that happens a lot...i guess

When the internet goes down, as it will, our software works in any mobile browser on 3G or 4G network. You can still estimate, still invoice, still email, still manage your WIP, workflow and job board, call a customer, see your tasks...basically you are not down at all. This is the case even if you lose power....which happens more than the internet going down.

However, when it is a proprietary DATA format that is operating our day to day break and butter, the fear of lose Control is real.

Switching from one POS software to another is a major undertaking. Let's say the $129/mo VOX subscription decided to up it to $200/mo, what can we do?

What loss of control are you talking about? The data is yours. Want to stop using SignVOX? Cancel take your data with you. Your data is then wiped from our system. Also it is accessible via .csv and .pdf downloads at any time during the use of it. No ones data is held hostage or shared.

Converting to a different POS is definitely change. However, we help make it easy by importing existing data so you don't have to recreate the wheel, have excellent support via phone, email and an in program chat feature. Plus the interface is intuitive and logical. Plus we are more concerned with support than having great software (that's just an added bonus) and the support is included in the price.

WOW! $200 that would be awesome but we think $129 is a fair number. Hypothetically speaking if prices go up it would only be in perhaps adding more features that would garner a higher price should you want that. However, some upgrades that add tremendous value might just be included and because you are on a subscription service you would get them instantly at no charge. Lets take the expense feature that will show up in 2012 sometime. (Similar to Freshbooks). It might be free it might be a small charge. I don't know. In all reality we are for profit business, and will only make adjustments to price over the course of our life to stay that way and to secure the stability of the product and its clients. But it won't happen without letting you know..if it happens at all.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

What loss of control are you talking about? The data is yours. Want to stop using SignVOX? Cancel take your data with you. Your data is then wiped from our system. Also it is accessible via .csv and .pdf downloads at any time during the use of it. No ones data is held hostage or shared.

I can't speak for everyone, but my feeling as lose of control is this. If I have this on my own computers nowhere else, I'm the one responsible for everything. Making sure the computers are up and running, up to date etc. If I have it on a cloud based server, all that is done by someone else. I have no idea the true strengths or weaknesses of your system, employees, what they might, might not have access to. Is there a "backdoor" that a clever hacker might be able to exploit etc. The more you trust to someone else, the more vulnerable you are.

If it's on a cloud system, my server might be running great, but for some reason I may not be able to access the "cloud" for whatever reason. If I need files that are only on the cloud at the time, that might halt production, just depends on the severity of the issue. It never fails to happen for me that things I need are at the one place I can't access at the time.

As to deleting things off the servers once the client no longer uses the service. Is anything truly ever deleted? What lengths to you go to to make sure that even the "ghosts" of those files are taken care of? How do I really know that those lengths are taken? If everything is on my local server, I know exactly what has been done, because I did it.

Now as far as greater efficiency with using the cloud based system. Not really worth it in my case, may be different for someone else, but not in my case and that's all I'm specifically talking about is my case. I only have two computers to update. It's not worth the subscription fees and the values that I place on the drawbacks to using the cloud system for me to use it. I don't use my iPad for business. I have my main computer which is a desktop and then my laptop. That laptop can handle everything that desktop can, when I'm mobile, I take that for work on the road. The iPad can't do everything, so why take 2 things when 1 is more then capable of doing everything?


The cloud is still way to much in its infancy for me to feel comfortable with using it. I may change my mind as I grow and my needs change/grow with that, but not as of right now.

 

[signswi]

Cloud tech really isn't in it's infancy, it's rather mature all around which is why it's essentially ubiquitous now. Basecamp by 37signals, which is as good a marker point as any, was launched in 2004 and ushered in the most recent, publicized, visible shift towards SaaS models. That's already 7 years ago. Amazon ec2 and s3 launched in 2006, already 5 years ago and once they launched the SaaS world really matured and exploded. Salesforce.com is over 12 years old for another good example of mature, widely used, important cloud software.

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

I can't speak for everyone, but my feeling as lose of control is this. If I have this on my own computers nowhere else, I'm the one responsible for everything. Making sure the computers are up and running, up to date etc. If I have it on a cloud based server, all that is done by someone else. I have no idea the true strengths or weaknesses of your system, employees, what they might, might not have access to. Is there a "backdoor" that a clever hacker might be able to exploit etc. The more you trust to someone else, the more vulnerable you are.

If it's on a cloud system, my server might be running great, but for some reason I may not be able to access the "cloud" for whatever reason. If I need files that are only on the cloud at the time, that might halt production, just depends on the severity of the issue. It never fails to happen for me that things I need are at the one place I can't access at the time.

As to deleting things off the servers once the client no longer uses the service. Is anything truly ever deleted? What lengths to you go to to make sure that even the "ghosts" of those files are taken care of? How do I really know that those lengths are taken? If everything is on my local server, I know exactly what has been done, because I did it.

Now as far as greater efficiency with using the cloud based system. Not really worth it in my case, may be different for someone else, but not in my case and that's all I'm specifically talking about is my case. I only have two computers to update. It's not worth the subscription fees and the values that I place on the drawbacks to using the cloud system for me to use it. I don't use my iPad for business. I have my main computer which is a desktop and then my laptop. That laptop can handle everything that desktop can, when I'm mobile, I take that for work on the road. The iPad can't do everything, so why take 2 things when 1 is more then capable of doing everything?


The cloud is still way to much in its infancy for me to feel comfortable with using it. I may change my mind as I grow and my needs change/grow with that, but not as of right now.

As for control I can totally respect that. There is a lot to say for peace of mind even if the reason is simply a "what if" scenario. However I would say if you took the industry as a whole and compared the average shop's backup and security measures to using our system we would be an immediate upgrade to both.
In SignVOX's case we simply want to provide a tool that adds value in how you manage and grow your business. Yes we are cloud based and for some that is the sticking point for even considering it. However if you can get by the "what if" scenarios and see the value in using it then let me know. I'm here to answer any questions that you might have. It is really good software designed specifically for the business we all make a living at and is fun to use.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Cloud tech really isn't in it's infancy, it's rather mature all around which is why it's essentially ubiquitous now. Basecamp by 37signals, which is as good a marker point as any, was launched in 2004 and ushered in the most recent, publicized, visible shift towards SaaS models. That's already 7 years ago. Amazon ec2 and s3 launched in 2006, already 5 years ago and once they launched the SaaS world really matured and exploded. Salesforce.com is over 12 years old for another good example of mature, widely used, important cloud software.

What I mean by infancy, is at the grass roots consumer level, which is what it's hitting now. Where everyone knows something about it. I can promise you that 12 yrs ago, I didn't know of any cloud based computing or if I did, it may not have been called that back then.

When "products" hit the general public, the whole game plan changes. Just like when the internet went from a military "product" to a consumer product, you had different regulation and different parameters to meet.

As was already mentioned, and I agree with, cloud based computer hasn't been clearly defined yet and with that definition comes a degree of regulation. As the systems are tested at the grass roots consumer level that'll be ironed out, til it is, it's still in a growing infancy period.

The internet went through this as well. I would prefer to wait til the dust settles to see how this affects people at the grass root level.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

As for control I can totally respect that. There is a lot to say for peace of mind even if the reason is simply a "what if" scenario. However I would say if you took the industry as a whole and compared the average shop's backup and security measures to using our system we would be an immediate upgrade to both.
In SignVOX's case we simply want to provide a tool that adds value in how you manage and grow your business. Yes we are cloud based and for some that is the sticking point for even considering it. However if you can get by the "what if" scenarios and see the value in using it then let me know. I'm here to answer any questions that you might have. It is really good software designed specifically for the business we all make a living at and is fun to use.

I hope I wasn't coming across as knocking your product. I just have certain fears in general that need to be addressed (if nothing else in my mind), but I will keep my mind open as everything does change (in some cases on a daily basis) and who knows, I might be a staunch support if it eventually. It's just the value I place on my "fears", founded or otherwise, just dictate a hold and watch position.

 

[Kevin-shopVOX]

I hope I wasn't coming across as knocking your product. I just have certain fears in general that need to be addressed (if nothing else in my mind), but I will keep my mind open as everything does change (in some cases on a daily basis) and who knows, I might be a staunch support if it eventually. It's just the value I place on my "fears", founded or otherwise, just dictate a hold and watch position.

Not at all. It takes all kinds to make the world go round which is what makes it a great place.

 

[gnemmas]

The fear is not about nature disaster or hacking of data, it is about the company behind it. Fear of being controlled by it.

You pay a sum for a POS software, the program will work even if that company is out of business. The Cyrious 2000 still works on XP with parallel dongle, you can switch computer freely (except it is hard to find a computer with parallel port nowadays.) You can sell it freely.

Upgraded to Cyrious 8.6 with USB dongle, now you have to call tech support if you switch computers ($125). You can not sell it without their approval ($750). We lost control.

Now with the concept of VOX. You really feel like it gets you by the balls. So you will assured us that you won't raise the fee unless you have to, like 1 year, 2years or...? or if you don't raise it, you will go under. either way we are toasted.

Please enlighten us upon our exit, how can we use .csv or pdf. to reconstruct customer file, past invoices, product data?

I am interest in your product, how about free trial offer? What is the relationship between your company and Sign arama?

 

[SignVOX]

SignVOX - Data Migration

The fear is not about nature disaster or hacking of data, it is about the company behind it. Fear of being controlled by it.

You pay a sum for a POS software, the program will work even if that company is out of business. The Cyrious 2000 still works on XP with parallel dongle, you can switch computer freely (except it is hard to find a computer with parallel port nowadays.) You can sell it freely.

Upgraded to Cyrious 8.6 with USB dongle, now you have to call tech support if you switch computers ($125). You can not sell it without their approval ($750). We lost control.

Now with the concept of VOX. You really feel like it gets you by the balls. So you will assured us that you won't raise the fee unless you have to, like 1 year, 2years or...? or if you don't raise it, you will go under. either way we are toasted.

Please enlighten us upon our exit, how can we use .csv or pdf. to reconstruct customer file, past invoices, product data?

I am interest in your product, how about free trial offer? What is the relationship between your company and Sign arama?

I would like to clarify few things:
1. Yes we will raise prices, but we wont price our selves out of the market and shoot our selves in the foot. Now you can say what is the raise, I cannot tell what it will be just like any other business, just like every one expects a raise, my employees, my landlord, my utility company, my kids allowances, we will raise the prices too and if not we will be out of business as you mentioned. Within the community here every one has an opinion and every one sees a different value of what it is worth of what we provide. If one does not see a value they wont pay as simple as that and some one else will come along and grab those those customers. Just like what we are doing now, providing value for the money you pay. And there is nothing for free in this world. Some one has to pay, otherwise E=MC2 wont work.

2. As a co-founder of SignVOX this is what I promise w.r.to your data, you get your data in .csv files (customers, quotes, invoices, orders, products) and any other data you need. These are what we import from other sign POS softwares today when they migrate. And we have figured out how to take this data and put it together for our customers. So when you move from SignVOX to others they will ask you to get the data which we readily provide and they will figure out how it fits into their model.

3. We are a software company and we are not after your customer db, because I dont know what I will do with it. It is as good as a Yellow Pages. Lot of people talk about "my customer list". What is that list, it is in your yellow pages, google local search list, yahoo search of business every where, because every business wants signs so that is not proprietary. If you are doing good it is not because of the list, it is because you provide a good service and value and they want your service.

4. Our relationship with Sign*A*Rama is just like any vendor has with Sign*A*rama we are the preferred vendor to provide the sign business mgmt. software to all their future stores.

5. There is no upfront fees for you to start using it except for the monthly fee. It is pay as you go so, signup and test it out and see if it fits your bill, if not just let us know and we stop billing you, as simple as that. We tried free trials and no one has time for it when its free. And people who are serious about it have never had an issue with paying for it. Here is what I can offer, after the trial if you give me 5 things which we cannot fix within a reasonable time which are show stoppers for you to do your business, we will refund the fees. I get some real feedback at least for the time you have spent to truly test it.

And lastly, the world is moving towards the cloud based/SAAS software. Cause it is easy to make and manage and it is easy for people to own it for a fraction of the total cost on a monthly basis. You will not have packaged software in future. Year to two years from now. And it is the right thing for all parties involved. Also it is good for our customers because we cant hold you hostage cause you paid upfront. We have to earn it month by month. If we are not providing good service you will remind us every time you pay for it.

I hope I have clarified your questions, if no feel free to PM me.

 

[LarryB]

I am in the process of switching over from Activity to SignVox and can tell you I have no hesitations of using Cloud software. I can sit at home on my ipad and have all the access like I am at my office. I can update pricing, look at sales and work on prospecting. So much easier than Activity.

The cloud is where everything is heading. Look at Apple - they are fixing to have a huge upgrade involving their cloud this fall.