Color Gamut - No Blue

[Ironbar]

I have a HP Latex 115. I have struggled with printing blue with this thing since day one. These are the colors I get with my current ICC profile:

I know CMYK is limited with blues but I have seen some pictures of people printing with HP Latex inks that some decent blues. Does this color gamut seem normal for a HP Latex printer or is there a problem here that I just have not found yet?

 

[balstestrat]

Try to find a profile with higher ink limit, that will expand your gamut.

 

[Ironbar]

I have it set at 100% ink load because I don't get any blurring. Do you mean more passes? This profile is 10p. I recreated it with 20 passes on a generic profile and my test prints look the same.

 

[balstestrat]

No, like I said, increase your ink limit if you want more gamut. 12p150% would be a good test to see if you can spot difference.

 

[Ironbar]

Flexi won't let me push the ink limit past 100%. I'll try on Onyx or directly on the profile on the printer and see what happens. Thank you.

 

[balstestrat]

You always do it on the printer.

 

[Ironbar]

Even on the printer I cannot find anywhere that will let me go past 120%. Could this be a limitation of the printer or am I just missing something?

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

You need to move up to 12 pass yo get 150% iirc

 

[Ironbar]

12p is limited to 110, 16p is limited to 120, 20p is limited to 120. Only thing I can think is that I have a print head issue. They don't show that many clogs but there really isn't much else it could be.

 

[balstestrat]

12p is limited to 110, 16p is limited to 120, 20p is limited to 120. Only thing I can think is that I have a print head issue. They don't show that many clogs but there really isn't much else it could be.

You can definitely get more. I don't have a 115 here to check but even some pre-made profiles have them.
12p150 ->

 

[Ironbar]

Your absolutely right. In order to get above 120% I had to create a blacklit profile. It will now allow me to go to 200%. I reprofiled with 150% and there was not to much difference. I went ahead and bumped it up to 200% and there is a little more of a difference. Still does not seem like I am getting what I should. What do you think and what would you suggest now?

 

[balstestrat]

It shouldn't need backlit profile for it. I'll check tomorrow if I remember.

However I think we need to go back to the basics.
Is your machine okay (inks and printheads? Is your RIP set correctly? Do you profile correctly?
What are your expectations really? What blue do you want?
What are you printing on? Paper is different than vinyl etc.

If you want to share your file maybe someone can test it. Just the default Self-adhesive vinyl is already set to the over saturated side which should give out decent blue.

 

[Ironbar]

It shouldn't need backlit profile for it. I'll check tomorrow if I remember.

However I think we need to go back to the basics.
Is your machine okay (inks and printheads? Is your RIP set correctly? Do you profile correctly?
What are your expectations really? What blue do you want?
What are you printing on? Paper is different than vinyl etc.

If you want to share your file maybe someone can test it. Just the default Self-adhesive vinyl is already set to the over saturated side which should give out decent blue.

1) All of the tests on the printer show everything to be working correctly. i.e. Alignment tests are fine, no banding, no bleeding, no blurring.
2) My printheads are out of warranty but none of them have a ton of ink through them. They all test fine but they do have some clogged nozzles:

In my limited experience, there isn't enough nozzles clogged on any of these to be an issue but you may say otherwise. My inks are all fairly new with the exception of the optimizer, LC, and LM. All three of them expired in the last three months of 2024. I don't use this printer a ton (which is part of the problem) so I don't go through a lot of ink.

3) Maybe my RIP is set up incorrectly. I am using Flexi (I have tried ONYX with the same results) and the Flexi production manager. As far as profiling, I am using the profile creator in Flexi Production Manager. I follow all of the instructions exactly on-screen and have watched several videos from Flexi to follow their instructions. I print the linearization chart, scan it in with a x-rite i1 pro 3, then print the characterization charts, and scan them in. I select the GCRsmooth profile for blacks and let it create the icc profile. Then I go back to my test print which is just blocks set with different examples of blue and print using that new profile.
4) I don't think my expectations are to high. I know CMYK has it's limits but I should be able to get a decent blue. I wanted to get as close to Pantone 2388CP as possible which should be around 100C/70M. This color comes out with way to much Magenta.
5) I am printing on Orajet 3551G primarily.

 

[netsol]

i know next to nothing about latex, but, there is another variable

is this machine heavily used?
does latex have solids to come out of suspension in your ink?

would shaking inks periodically be an idea worth consideration?

 

[Ironbar]

No, the machine is not heavily used at all. I think latex can come out of suspension but the cyan is brand new and I always shake the cartridges before installation. I will give it a try though. I'll shake them all and print a test again. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[balstestrat]

You were absolutely right, these only allow 120% as max for frontlit. They've raised the limit on the never machines.
Anyway I tested it with 3115G profile 10p110% and I think the blue is pretty nice and even close to 2388C. Just the picture makes it seem slightly darker than it was so keep that in mind.

Did you have old expired Cyan loaded just before? It will take a while for the fresh ink to arrive at the nozzles.

 

[netsol]

No, the machine is not heavily used at all. I think latex can come out of suspension but the cyan is brand new and I always shake the cartridges before installation. I will give it a try though. I'll shake them all and print a test again. Thanks for the suggestion.

you follow my thinking though.
i was wondering if the cyan in the line is thickened, OR if earlier prints had too much solids in them & what is in the lines, reaching the printhead is the residue, mostly solvent or carrier.

my mutoh MP31 inks need to be shaken daily.

 

[Ironbar]

You were absolutely right, these only allow 120% as max for frontlit. They've raised the limit on the never machines.
Anyway I tested it with 3115G profile 10p110% and I think the blue is pretty nice and even close to 2388C. Just the picture makes it seem slightly darker than it was so keep that in mind.

Did you have old expired Cyan loaded just before? It will take a while for the fresh ink to arrive at the nozzles.

View attachment 176299 View attachment 176300 View attachment 176301

Wow. Your blues look amazing compared to mine. Yes, my cyan was expired before. Do you think if I run a long run of 4-5' of solid cyan it will push it through faster? I have no idea how much ink is in those lines. What RIP are you using? It looks like your gamut goes from a dark center to lighter outside and mine is opposite. Any chance you could send me your profile for Orajet 3551G and I can try it?

 

[balstestrat]

I think it's just the one you can download from the substrate library.

Oh yeah and I don't think that's enough. You need to do like 50-100sqft (50ml of ink) to be sure it's completely trough.

 

[P Wagner]

2d view of a typical Latex Gen3 gamut at 120percent ink density.

Expired inks that have fallen out of solution will cause big issues with colors and gamut.