Need Help Color Variation From Panel To Panel

[Jamie Levey]

I'm having an issue with the panels of a wrap printing different colors. This is a constant problem and I can't seem to find an answer. This has happened to me for years with different variables. Here are my current specs:
*Roland VP540i (perfect color tests)
*Versaworks (updated)
*Latest Adobe Suite
*Avery MPI1105

*Although these 2 panels are from different files, they are almost identical in the file. Same thing happens on panels that are side by side in a wrap, although usually not as extreme as this one. (see photo)

The issue is that I've had this problem on different printers (XC 540) and different RIPs (Onyx) over the years. It doesn't make sense! Same file, same profile, same material, printed same time!
I'm a 25 year veteran in the industry so trust me...I've "checked the gas."

Thanks for any ideas!

 

[JulieS]

Ok, I've been a sign designer for 15+ years but have never really understood color, so I've been trying to learn recently. I may be totally off base, but could it have something to do with RGB vs CMYK? Like if one file's "Document Color Mode" in Illustrator is RGB while the other file has somehow been saved as CMYK? I haven't figured out yet what makes Illustrator save a file as one way or the other, but I have noticed that it does affect print color.

 

[Jamie Levey]

Hey Julie,
Yea, we've dealt with that before, but this is literally from the same file. We can put the entire file into the RIP and it will make the panels to fit the printer. So say, for instance, we have a 12' panel...the RIP will separate the file into 3 panels for output. Same file, same RIP. Panel 1,2, & 3 all print at the same time with an overlap, but one of the panels will be a completely different shade of color than the rest. Makes absolutely no sense!

 

[JulieS]

I see! Very frustrating!

 

[ADuke]

We have had the same issues, mostly with gray color. I would send a file to print and then send the same file (print it twice) and the two prints will look different. I have tried color calibrating both the printer and my computer monitor. I have tried re-profiling the print media (which was recommended to do every new seasonal change), checking the "document color mode" (as Julie suggested) and setting up a custom color management profile in ONYX. Re-calibrating seems to fix most of the issues I've had...or checking my ink levels. I am working with an HP latex 360, which has a Magenta and Light Magenta (for example). If one is low (say the magenta) the machine will start pulling ink from the other (light magenta) to try to compensate for the low ink levels...which may affect the color output. Other things like expired ink, or print heads out of warranty have also caused color issues. Maybe try checking how old your ink is?

 

[GaSouthpaw]

I can't believe your installer put that on like that.
I wish I could give you an answer on that, but I'm stumped. Do you flip the panels when printing?

 

[CanuckSigns]

when you print your panels in versaworks, is "place alternated" selected? this flips every other panel 180 degrees so that the sides that match with each other are printed on the same side of the printer, i've found this helps quite a bit.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Looks like your magenta dropped out on the quarter panel to me.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Looks like your magenta dropped out on the quarter panel to me.

Wouldn't that show up more as banding or generally a bad looking print? on it's own the print looks to be fine, it's just a different colour.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

not necessarily. I suggest doing nozzle checks between panels if this is a recurring problem for you.

 

[Joe House]

Slight variations between panels is exactly why most RIPs have an automatic feature to flip panels - like "Place Alternate" in Versaworks. One side of the printer may be warmer than the other end or [insert favorite reason here].
Another reason for variation could be the width of the panel. Most customers that I have turn full width scan off on their printers so that they print faster. The trade off here is that the ink is drying faster on a narrower panel than it does on a full width panel because the print carriage is only traveling the width of the print data. If this is a constant problem, flip you panels so that print from the right side of the printer mates up with the print from the same side. If you're sending panels separately, you may have to flip the panel 180 degrees on the layout tab. Then turn Full Width Scan (in the sub menu) to Full. This will give you the most consistent color and is the setting that I use when creating profiles.
All this is assuming that the file settings are identical.

 

[shoresigns]

Slight variations between panels is exactly why most RIPs have an automatic feature to flip panels - like "Place Alternate" in Versaworks. One side of the printer may be warmer than the other end or [insert favorite reason here].
Another reason for variation could be the width of the panel. Most customers that I have turn full width scan off on their printers so that they print faster. The trade off here is that the ink is drying faster on a narrower panel than it does on a full width panel because the print carriage is only traveling the width of the print data. If this is a constant problem, flip you panels so that print from the right side of the printer mates up with the print from the same side. If you're sending panels separately, you may have to flip the panel 180 degrees on the layout tab. Then turn Full Width Scan (in the sub menu) to Full. This will give you the most consistent color and is the setting that I use when creating profiles.
All this is assuming that the file settings are identical.

Awesome tip about the full width scan - I never would have thought of that on my own. We haven't had issues with this before as we don't do a ton of wraps, but good to know.

 

[Gino]

Since it's all out of the same file, but ripped individually, could you have had an ever so slight voltage surge or drop out ?? Nothing you'd notice and not enough to stop your file while ripping, but just enough to possibly send a mistaken color calculation over your ethernet. connection.

 

[AKwrapguy]

What are you saving the file as? EPS. PDF, TIFF?

 

[Andy_warp]

We run slugs of the predominate spot colors outside of the trim area to keep everything firing.
It also helps us assess that spot color as it runs.

The width of the pass matters for us when we print direct dye sub on fabric.
If I run a 12" strip...the shortened time between carriage passes doesn't allow the ink to dry.

 

[signtech]

Awesome tip about the full width scan - I never would have thought of that on my own. We haven't had issues with this before as we don't do a ton of wraps, but good to know.

That is a good rule of thumb. In our shop, I like to let the machine think about the correct way to print/flip, but of course PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION, PRODUCTION! (is that why we have to print the panel again, full length)

 

[Cynosure]

I have run into this with my versacamm 540 as well, mostly with blue or gray backgrounds. I've had no luck with my Tech Guys other than them telling me to click the place alternated as well. The weird thing is I bet if you tried ripping it it would print the correct color the second time around, at least that's how it's been in my cases. Some good info here, thanks again everyone.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[Pacific Coast Sign]

when you print your panels in versaworks, is "place alternated" selected? this flips every other panel 180 degrees so that the sides that match with each other are printed on the same side of the printer, i've found this helps quite a bit.

Yeppers... this is what needs to be done.