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JdBattDesignRCI

New Member
So the print shop I work at uses a Canon Arizona 1360GT flatbed UV printer to make large signs on coroplast. I always clean the coroplast with a suggested fingerprint remover formula of 14 oz water, 10 oz of Simple Green and 14oz of denatured alcohol. And I always wait until it's totally dry and wipe any unseen residue off with a clean towel before printing. My UV lamp settings are always 100% on both lamps. I use a high ink density on Express quality for coroplast as I have been instructed at two previous sign shops. Now the install crew noticed the UV ink has started to scratch off signs when they're being installed. I can't turn the settings up any higher for coroplast, it always worked in the past and customers have not said anything about this problem before.

Cured UV ink should have permanence for up to a year outdoors, possibly longer. Only strong solvents like paint stripper are known to remove it under normal circumstances.

I suggested using a clear coat fixative spray meant to protect photo prints, but we never had to do that before.

Any other suggestions?
 

signheremd

New Member
Once had the same issue, it is the quality of the Coroplast - some manufacturers have it digital print ready and some do not. We use Solv S1000 to clean before printing on untreated plastics.

 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
When you are wiping down the Cor-X with your or any other product, you should do it in small areas and keep wiping til it's dry and continue that around the substrate.

Also, Cor-x is about the cheapest material you can use, so don't make a federal case out of making cheap sh!t last.
 

JdBattDesignRCI

New Member
Also, I should clarify this is the double thick 10mil coroplast, the kind that I was told costs around $25 per sheet. The stuff has always been hard to work with, doesn't help how it usually comes off the truck warped and dirty with stringy edges from whatever saw they use to cut it. Very hard to cut straight too. I need to press it flat with a heavy steel plate we have in the shop or it won't even get any table suction. Unfortunately this is what we use to print double sided construction signs with.

The printer head height setting is usually .400 - .415"

I usually go along the cut edges with a razor blade, then i wrap a clean automotive detailing towel around a Swiffer mop and make single passes parallel to the flutes, one row at a time, back and forth like a lawnmower, found it was more even than hand pressure. So I have been doing that method for over a year and it seems to work the best. When I first started the finger smudges and rag streaks were a real problem until I figured this out.

I really haven't done anything differently in almost a year and it was my "tried & true method", this just started happening in the last few large signs we printed.
 
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Gino

Premium Subscriber
How many hours on your lamps ?? If the initial pass doesn't properly cure/dry, it will be that way down the entire sign. Thus, as you move along, your ink is not making a solid adhesion from the get-go. Guess what that means ??
 

JdBattDesignRCI

New Member
We use UV LED lamps that are supposed to last a lot longer than the tube lamps. As far as I know they were not replaced and the machine is about three years old.
 

DL Signs

Never go against the family
Adhesion promoter... Cheap coroplast isn't always coated the best, or at all. I ran a Fujifilm (same printer, different name), and used their Uvijet-ZE, worked like a charm.
 

White Haus

Not a Newbie
If the material, prep method and inkset has stayed the same, I'd definitely look into the bulbs.

LED's have much longer lives than traditional (Canon traditional is like 500 hours but we run to 800-900 usually) but they still need to be replaced eventually.

We've never had any luck printing to 10mm coroplast on our Canon/Oce. First big job we had after we bought ours years ago was hundreds of large 10mm coroplast signs - after wasting a couple of days testing different prep methods we eventually gave up and printed all on cheap vinyl and just mounted.

I'll try your recipe and method and see if it gives us better results.
 

Django

New Member
10mm coro usually isn't Corona treated/digital print ready. If the ink is cured but chips off/doesn't adhere to the media, the issue is the coro.
If the coro is treated and still doesn't adhere, I would question how old the stock is.
You can try cleaning the led lens, to see if it helps, if your lamps have those.
Another trick I have seen is lowering the amount of cyan there is in the print, if it has any.
In any case, best of luck.
 

Dasdesignguy

Production Manager/Field Service Tech
I concur it's gotta be the coro treatment. Maybe the sheets you are using were at the beginning or the end of the treatment run. Only ever experienced that issue when we had to use the cheap/different materials due to supply chain issues.
 

Michael-Nola

I print things. It is very exciting.
So the print shop I work at uses a Canon Arizona 1360GT flatbed UV printer to make large signs on coroplast. I always clean the coroplast with a suggested fingerprint remover formula of 14 oz water, 10 oz of Simple Green and 14oz of denatured alcohol. And I always wait until it's totally dry and wipe any unseen residue off with a clean towel before printing. My UV lamp settings are always 100% on both lamps. I use a high ink density on Express quality for coroplast as I have been instructed at two previous sign shops. Now the install crew noticed the UV ink has started to scratch off signs when they're being installed. I can't turn the settings up any higher for coroplast, it always worked in the past and customers have not said anything about this problem before.

Cured UV ink should have permanence for up to a year outdoors, possibly longer. Only strong solvents like paint stripper are known to remove it under normal circumstances.

I suggested using a clear coat fixative spray meant to protect photo prints, but we never had to do that before.

Any other suggestions?
I have never heard of that cleaning mixture, but no one else mentioned it ... am I suddenly out of the loop?? I have never heard any manufacturer suggesting a detergent based soap to prep their products for UV ink. Does anyone have an OEM product data sheet speaking to that? That would be wild and I'd love to learn about something new (to me) I didn't know about.

As far as ink laydown and adhesion go, can I ask why are you are using a high ink density on an LSE petroleum product???
And why are you opting to "express cure" in bands on LSE instead of pin cure? Have you had luck with this before, but it has recently changed final results?
These are not the industry standard methods for adhesion on challenging products, but our methods vary wildly in this industry, so always best to ask.

That all said - with the proper prep and application, you can get some pretty decent life out of digitally printed coroplast. However, there are NO warranties or guarantees with that product! It's a trash product just like paper.

You can make coro signs last for years and years honestly, but only if prepared and printed properly. For better or worse, we're not throwing sericol inks on coro anymore these days!
 

MelloImagingTechnologies

Many years in the Production Business
It is the chemicals that the 1/2” (10 mil) Coroplast is made from that cause this.
It’s called platicizer and it keeps emerging out even after cleaning and it happens more in the summer.
All my customers print on cheap Abv and apply when the job is on 10mil and they directly print skids worth every month on 6mil on the Vanguard printers I sold them.
Bruce
 
I concur it's gotta be the coro treatment. Maybe the sheets you are using were at the beginning or the end of the treatment run. Only ever experienced that issue when we had to use the cheap/different materials due to supply chain issues.
Cor treatment only lasts about six months. If the material has been sitting around a while you need to clean with adhesion promoter.
 

JdBattDesignRCI

New Member
The chemical treatment I use is to remove the fingerprints and grease smudges, etc from the surface and it evaporates in a few seconds, usually not leaving any streaks or residue. It has nothing to do with ink adhesion and, like I stated earlier, it has not negatively affected the prints before.
 

Caren Hines

New Member
We use UV LED lamps that are supposed to last a lot longer than the tube lamps. As far as I know they were not replaced and the machine is about three years old.
I believe they need changing every 500 hours! I just changed mine a few weeks ago. Check in the maintenance task under uv replacement on the machine to see how many hours you have on them.
 

Tim Corbitt

New Member
Interesting, as they say, your mileage will vary. We have been printing on coroplast for longer than I wish to remember. Our old Halogen UV curved machines, forget it... Our new LED UV Cured machines, are good. Here is what we have learned and apply in our shop...

1. We clean boards to ensure no finger prints (no need to debate the many processes used, just be sure the board is clean, dry, and free of any oils from handling the board to avoid fingerprint on light colors).
2. We try to keep our stock fresh. We prefer to purchase by the skid, but sometime adjust seasonally to ensure we do not end of with a bunch of stock that is aging on the floor.
3. Print on @ 50% carriage speeds using 6 or 8 pass profiles (we want to lay the ink down in thin layers, curing as we go). Depending on colors, adhesion test results, and use, we can in many cases speed it up.
4. UV lamps between 30-40%. For us, this is key, we are curing the ink to maximize adhesion, not trying to bake it and create a new ink layer on top of the coroplast. Think of it lay spay paint, it cannot penetrate the surface, so build up lighter layers to establish as much grip as possible.

Adhesion tests: First, when we start with new lots since we do not know how long the boards were sitting before we received them. If we find a lot that is problematic, we adjust the UV exposure. Per discussions with several of the chemical guys at the factory, (this is their claim not mine) the corona chemical can be partly reactivated via UV exposure. If we find boards that are not adhering well, we adjust the printing to expose UL lamps prior to any ink being applied. I have no understanding why, only know that this clearly improves adhesion, and is a quick and simply way to address potential adhesion issues. Again, not a scientifically based fact, but we do notice fresh boards have a distinct order that dissipates as the boards age; not sure if this is the corona treatment or not but just something we notice.

We only print on full sheet in production. End runs of course on scraps. Trimming/ automated cutting requires solid adhesion to ensure no ink cracking/chipping. Prior to putting a lot of material into finishing, we test the adhesion on the first few prints and adjust as needed. For standard adhesion applications, we fold the material to ensure the ink stretchers and verify the ink cannot be pulled off with painters tape. For applications that require higher adhesion, we cut the ink and then pull a tape test to be use we cannot pull off the ink.

For applications requiring maximum adhesion, we have never been able to use UV cured inks to meet the requirements. For those, (i.e. coroplast packing that is cut, folded, and typically used as retail displays), we have only seen success using Laxtex inks on Coroplast. I know our approach seems very different than most comments in the thread (tons of ink at 100% UV vs our opposite approach), but I can only report, if we did that, I could peel the ink off the board with little effort and it would never pass any adhesion testing.

Of, and not to state the obvious, but make sure the board you are purchasing is Corona treated; it is more expensive and many supply houses and sales people do not know the difference between the two; only that to win your business, they quote the non-treated board... Sign grade is sufficient (it is what we use), although the Medical Grade stuff is the best (and very expensive).

Tim
 

petepaz

New Member
uv ink doesn't bite in to the plastic like solvent inks do. we silk screen a lot of coro and we have to use a catalyst in the ink so it sticks good.
we have a roland LEJ, EFI and fugi acuity, the roland uv ink sticks the best of the 3 and the fugi is the worst but if you are aggressive with the sign it can still scratch
i think it's just the nature of the beast.
if we have to use the acuity for coro signs we will actually run them through our silk screen UV dryers for extra curing that helps
 
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