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Design employers want Adobe Illustrator, InDesign AND Canva/chatgpt, experience!

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
I saw some comments on FB yesterday. A local racetrack used AI to create a schedule (I think it looks nice for a FB post), apparently most of the tracks are doing this now vs. hiring a designer. Someone complained stating they should be using a local designer and tagged the guy. The designer replied this whole big thing about how he has lost so much racetrack schedule design business to AI, etc. The comments were removed.

Yes, it's nice to support local people but on the other hand, is it necessary to pay someone to create FB posts like this from scratch? Things like this are posted one day, then two days later nobody looks at them again. And these tracks are posting things like this several times a week so I can see how they can save a lot of money.

I feel like there's a difference between "disposable" artwork like this and "permanent" artwork like a logo or vehicle/sign lettering.
That's a valid point Stacey
however, the bot get's things wrong, so when You're advertising something and there are typos and critical errors... It's probably not that easy to fix - especially for the non professional. A date or price is wrong... it's likely the artwork isn't editable, so then what.
 
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WildWestDesigns

Active Member
That's a valid point Stacey
however, the bot get's things wrong, so when You're advertising something and there are typos and critical errors... It's probably not that easy to fix - especially for the non professional. A date or price is wrong... it's likely the artwork isn't editable, so then what.
To add to that, if one is putting that out not having spotted the error and this is consistent, people are going to start thinking what else isn't up to par? Cutting corners here, what about in other areas?

If you have time to fix the 'fast' problem... you have time to do it correctly the first time. IMO
This has been a problem before "AI" came on the scene, only getting worse. In a lot of areas, tech has drastically made things worse (in areas that are at best tangentially related to this specific topic) and I love my tech (although I came from an analog time period), but again, not everything new is actually progress. Typically when they are used too soon in someone's learning of things (and this is actually going to make it to where people won't know as much to be able to fix it, shoot giving the stateside issues of reading that kiddos have now, I doubt even simple grammar errors would be able to be fixed). People need to know what's going on behind the scenes first, before using the abstractions, particularly the really high level ones. And acceptance of quite a bit of this stuff is not organic and really only about the bottom line (and not for us peons that's for sure), but I digress.

Will it go away...no. It will continued to be shoehorned into everything. Does that mean that it's actually a good thing to have? Not really. And that is regardless if it actually does truly become "AI" or at best, it just continues to actually get better. I'm more worried about the knowledge base that is lost.
 
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Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
I think AI is going to be one of those things that sticks around whether you like it or not. An entire generation is going to grow up with it and not have any experience without it to draw on. Once they enter the work force and out number us oldies, it will be seen as totally normal. I remember when the internet was gaining steam and people were freaking out about how it was going to take away people's jobs etc. At the end of the day it did, and we adjusted. A lot of the 60+ guys here were painting signs back in the day. My generation grew up with vinyl cutters and printers. The next one will no doubt have their own new way of doing things.
 
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WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I think AI is going to be one of those things that sticks around whether you like it or not.
No doubt in some form. Too much money in wanting it to stick around.

An entire generation is going to grow up with it and not have any experience without it to draw on. Once they enter the work force and out number us oldies, it will be seen as totally normal. I remember when the internet was gaining steam and people were freaking out about how it was going to take away people's jobs etc. At the end of the day it did, and we adjusted. A lot of the 60+ guys here were painting signs back in the day. My generation grew up with vinyl cutters and printers. The next one will no doubt have their own new way of doing things.
This is true and it's not really a good thing. A lot of the current younger generation grew up with computers when they had a lot more abstraction and that has made an issue when things don't work right (some don't even know what a file tree is or how to navigate through it, used to auto save and it picking the "best" location for the file in question, I doubt they even know that their phone as a file manager on it). Ironic given how "AI" (and it's really not "AI" as it is now, this is more marketing) has to be prompted to do things, we have an issue with reading/writing, that does put a damper on "prompt engineer" for future generations. We are also getting people less efficient in areas that they can actually do without "AI" ("AI Pause" is a thing). Bare in mind as well, MS is claiming 30 or 40% (of course don't know the specifics there, how it's being counted etc) of code written for Windows is done be "AI", notice a lack of stellar updates recently? Notice too that a lot of system programs in Windows are now web based, as far as GUI goes (I could understand this if there was a need for cross platform builds, but not here, these are very Windows specific)? Not only does "AI" do better (and that's relative) with the web stack, but it's also a high level of abstraction. While there has been some improvements, in a lot of ways, there has been regression. And I truly worry about the knowledge base (just asking "AI" at a moment's notice is not the same thing especially when have to wonder about the bona fides of the info that it is giving).
 

JBurton

Signtologist
I'm not real familiar with stock cars and the like, what flavor is this? It looks like an AI fever dream combining the front of a countach with the front of a fury on the back.
1769021102752.png
I also like how ai has mastered the use of way too many effects/fonts/titles typical of these flyers.
This makes me sad for the old school punk rock flyer scene, though I'm guessing stuff like local shows has all but died out anyway after covid closed all the non stubhub venues.
 

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
I'm not real familiar with stock cars and the like, what flavor is this? It looks like an AI fever dream combining the front of a countach with the front of a fury on the back.
View attachment 180723
I also like how ai has mastered the use of way too many effects/fonts/titles typical of these flyers.
This makes me sad for the old school punk rock flyer scene, though I'm guessing stuff like local shows has all but died out anyway after covid closed all the non stubhub venues.
local music scenes are making their return... but in our day we would print flyers and put them up all over town. Now It's just on FB and Reddit. I suppose there are a few paper flyers out there (I don't get out like I used to).
 

myront

Dammit, make it faster!!
I saw some comments on FB yesterday. A local racetrack used AI to create a schedule (I think it looks nice for a FB post), apparently most of the tracks are doing this now vs. hiring a designer. Someone complained stating they should be using a local designer and tagged the guy. The designer replied this whole big thing about how he has lost so much racetrack schedule design business to AI, etc. The comments were removed.

Yes, it's nice to support local people but on the other hand, is it necessary to pay someone to create FB posts like this from scratch? Things like this are posted one day, then two days later nobody looks at them again. And these tracks are posting things like this several times a week so I can see how they can save a lot of money.

I feel like there's a difference between "disposable" artwork like this and "permanent" artwork like a logo or vehicle/sign lettering.

View attachment 180721
What kind of print quality? What size? Users aren't considering these things. Don't send me a png for a quality print! "Send as pdf". "How do I do that"? "It doesn't scale even close to the size you want"? "Well, can't you just...."
Corel says it's corrupt, Illustrator has font and transparency issues, last resort flatten in photoshop, but cropping via powerclip or clipping mask cuts off content.
Get the bugs worked out and send the proof for approval. "How come the color looks different"? Grrrr!
 
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netsol

Premium Subscriber
hate to admit i turned 72 a couple weeks back, but i still run up and down ladders, scaffolds, bucket trucks and scissor lifts
it certainly isn't as easy as it was 3-4 years ago.

i handle new software very well, although i find the tablets & cell phones a bit annoying.
 
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netsol

Premium Subscriber
What kind of print quality? What size? Users aren't considering these things. Don't send me a png for a quality print! "Send as pdf". "How do I do that"? "It doesn't scale even close to the size you want"? "Well, can't you just...."
Corel says it's corrupt, Illustrator has font and transparency issues, last resort flatten in photoshop, but cropping via powerclip or clipping mask cuts off content.
Get the bugs worked out and send the proof for approval. "How come the color looks different"? Grrrr!
topaz AI hides some really ghastly faults in the files you are sent
 
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Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
topaz AI hides some really ghastly faults in the files you are sent
It also can create it's own ghastly faults. Perhaps you weren't there for my story about hitler's angry grandmother....

...it created a little mustache on some lady from the early 1900's photo. That was a few years ago... it's had a few updates since then, so It's probably getting better.
 
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netsol

Premium Subscriber
and it can put a weird overlay over the whole image like you are on the wrong side of a screen or something
but, it is almost always better than what a client gives you
 

MrDav3C

New Member
Unfortunately I think the use of Canva and AI are becoming more prevalent in our industry.

I think typically these days we get around 3 customers a week that have either created something using either AI or canva.

With the AI images, they are often some kind of visual of how the customer wants something to look with so many flaws from spelling mistakes, to irregularities and inconsistencies with the customers logo to fundamental issues with scales and proportions that make it impossible or just wrong to recreate the image as per the customers "artwork". I try to prompt AI to recreate certain elements of these projects in a useable format and usually id have more luck sticking scalpels in my eyes.

With the Canva "artwork", most of the time the customer sends a screenshot of the design they have created on their phone because they are too cheap to or don't know how to actually download the file as a print ready pdf or svg. Which even if they did are still a complete PITA to turn into actual useable artwork. Unfortunately as we all know, often the fonts and elements used are only available on Canva, reluctantly and shamefully, this has now lead to me to pay for a subscription to Canva as it makes recreating the diabolical tripe that they pass of as artwork quicker and less painful.

Whilst I have a great resentment for both of these things, I think we all have to accept they aren't going anywhere anytime soon and with how easy and accessible they are for any Tom, Dick or Harry to create a pretty picture, we could probably all do with a certain level of experience using them both, even if it's just to be able to educate our customers as to what their limitations are and why they are a bad choice... Although so far for us this usually falls on deaf ears!
 
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WildWestDesigns

Active Member
With the Canva "artwork", most of the time the customer sends a screenshot of the design they have created on their phone because they are too cheap to or don't know how to actually download the file as a print ready pdf or svg.
Too cheap as I believe, at least for SVG, that is a pay function. I have to wonder just how good their master source file is as it has to be geared more for internet usage, compared to what a local file could store. I think there is also a lot of rasterization going on with the exported SVGs and with the pdf exports as well. And SVGs aren't really good in the printing sphere either (at least with Inkscape they are working on getting more functionality in that regard, I doubt Canva will be able to, especially being web centric with the software itself). Thankfully, I have never had to directly deal with Canva files.

Which even if they did are still a complete PITA to turn into actual useable artwork. Unfortunately as we all know, often the fonts and elements used are only available on Canva, reluctantly and shamefully, this has now lead to me to pay for a subscription to Canva as it makes recreating the diabolical tripe that they pass of as artwork quicker and less painful.
Have I mentioned welcome to using the web as a platform for an app? The font issue could be solved if they used a local server and that would still allow for access to local font files (at least would is supported via webview (or essentially the browser) and still be able to use the browser for the GUI. Although I have seen worse usage of web UI for programs that it does not make any sense for.

Whilst I have a great resentment for both of these things, I think we all have to accept they aren't going anywhere anytime soon and with how easy and accessible they are for any Tom, Dick or Harry to create a pretty picture, we could probably all do with a certain level of experience using them both, even if it's just to be able to educate our customers as to what their limitations are and why they are a bad choice... Although so far for us this usually falls on deaf ears!
In a lot of ways, it's not even a pretty picture. It allows people to go from A -> Z with no knowledge of what is between the two. Will it go away....no. There are various reasons (although some could just be speculation on my part) for the businesses behind the scenes want this to continue. Will it get better...doubt it. What passes for "AI" isn't really "AI" and I have yet to see anything (doesn't mean that it isn't going on behind the scenes) to see where they are moving away from how "AI" is used/created now to show that it's going to be much different. Most normies don't know and frankly don't care.
 
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Stacey K

I like making signs
I'm not real familiar with stock cars and the like, what flavor is this? It looks like an AI fever dream combining the front of a countach with the front of a fury on the back.
View attachment 180723
I also like how ai has mastered the use of way too many effects/fonts/titles typical of these flyers.
This makes me sad for the old school punk rock flyer scene, though I'm guessing stuff like local shows has all but died out anyway after covid closed all the non stubhub venues.
It looks like a late model facing us but a stock car facing the opposite direction LOL Good eye! You're probably the ONLY person that noticed that.

I can tell you of their 16k followers 100% of them would have preferred a grid type schedule that's easy to read. They all took a screenshot and now have to zoom in to read anything cuz it's a fancy mess!
 
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Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
myront said:
Not only are employers seeking designers with experience in the "Industry Standard" Adobe (BS in itself), they also want experience with canva and chatgpt. First of all, Adobe is not a necessity, there are a lot of talented CorelDRAW users, as well as, other programs.

I've been using CorelDRAW well over 30 years, but even I'll admit Adobe's creative applications have been much more the "industry standard" for graphics, print publishing, advertising, etc than apps from any other company. In the 1990's there was far more competition. Most magazines and newspapers were composed using Quark Xpress back then. Aldus/Adobe PageMaker was inferior by comparison. Now most of that stuff is done using Adobe InDesign. Photoshop has always been the leader in image editing applications. In the 1990's there was more of a rivalry between vector graphics applications than there is now. Freehand was just about as popular as Illustrator. In current times I've still yet to receive any .afdesign files (Affinity) from any customers, despite the app being "free" now.

One thing that makes me believe Illustrator is more of an "industry standard" than CorelDRAW: in all the branding materials I get from major companies I never see any CDR files. It's all AI, PDF or even EPS files generated by Illustrator. Those materials are usually best opened in Illustrator, not CorelDRAW. Our RIP applications (Onyx Thrive and RasterLink Pro) are geared for PDF files generated by Illustrator; they have Adobe PDF print engines.

With that being said it's no surprise employers are still asking for candidates with Adobe experience in graphics job want ads.

I still think the AI stuff is a big, bullshit fad. There is a lot of graphics-related stuff it just can't do well at all. The people enamored by all the AI hype just haven't realized that yet.

I am fairly worried about the future of CorelDRAW. Version upgrades have been very anemic on new features and bug fix updates have been few and far between. It's obvious the app is being "maintained" by a skeleton crew of developers. Adobe's stock price has been getting beaten up lately, due mostly to all the AI bullshit. CorelDRAW is owned by a private equity company -so we have no idea how good or bad sales are of that application. Every day I'm getting junk mail from Corel offering big price discounts. So that may not be a good sign.

Very few rival applications can open/import CDR files. Illustrator has worthless CDR support; it can open CDR files made in version 5-10. But the past few versions of CorelDRAW can't save down to anything earlier than version X5. If CorelDRAW goes defunct it's going to be bad for any of us who have thousands of archived CDR work files.
 
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WildWestDesigns

Active Member
It's all AI, PDF or even EPS files generated by Illustrator.
I have gotten PDFs generated from multiple programs though (if the metadata of the file isn't misleading/stripped) as well as EPS. Rarely do I actually get Ai/CDR files even by places that most definitely would have that available.
With that being said it's no surprise employers are still asking for candidates with Adobe experience in graphics job want ads.
I was personally more surprised with Canva. The platform that the app is built on is inherently not good for print work.
I still think the AI stuff is a big, bullshit fad. There is a lot of graphics-related stuff it just can't do well at all.
It definitely doesn't have an organic feel to it's "acceptance". Unfortunately, those that are pushing it, can still push it regardless what us plebs want.
I am fairly worried about the future of CorelDRAW. Version upgrades have been very anemic on new features and bug fix updates have been few and far between. It's obvious the app is being "maintained" by a skeleton crew of developers. Adobe's stock price has been getting beaten up lately, due mostly to all the AI bullshit. CorelDRAW is owned by a private equity company -so we have no idea how good or bad sales are of that application. Every day I'm getting junk mail from Corel offering big price discounts. So that may not be a good sign.
These are old programs, it's going to be hard for them to actually improve in meaningful ways. I actually don't think of them in regard to their original capacity (same with MS with regard to Windows).

Very few rival applications can open/import CDR files. Illustrator has worthless CDR support; it can open CDR files made in version 5-10. But the past few versions of CorelDRAW can't save down to anything earlier than version X5. If CorelDRAW goes defunct it's going to be bad for any of us who have thousands of archived CDR work files.
While both Ai and CDR are proprietary file formats, I would say that because there is that pdf compatibility with Ai formats and PDF has been an ISO standard for quite a while, that helps go a long way, especially with OSS programs also having the ability to import Ai files as long as PDF compat is still checked. Post 2000 I think for that PDF base. Before that, I think the base was EPS. CDR doesn't really have any formal specifications that I am aware of for any part of the file (or zip compressed file).
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
WildWestDesigns said:
I have gotten PDFs generated from multiple programs though (if the metadata of the file isn't misleading/stripped) as well as EPS. Rarely do I actually get Ai/CDR files even by places that most definitely would have that available.

The only times I get mystery meat PDF files is when I'm dealing with small businesses. Like I said earlier, when I am handling branding materials from big companies, their stuff is always Adobe-flavored.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
The only times I get mystery meat PDF files is when I'm dealing with small businesses. Like I said earlier, when I am handling branding materials from big companies, their stuff is always Adobe-flavored.
You are lucky. I have gotten all kinds, one I wish I could mention due to the nerd in me, but due to NDA not possible (and that was a fun project) and you would be surprised. I don't know if they just assumed some things, but they even gave me PNGs, although very high resolution ones.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
It's very rare for a large company to not give me good quality artwork. They typically provide the Adobe-flavored vector files and sometimes include a brand guidelines manual for good measure. In recent memory Goodyear is the only major company where I've had to go round and round with them to get proper vector graphics (Goodyear updated its logo recently).

The smaller businesses and one-man operations are the far bigger problem. They're the ones who do the stupid stunts like saving a JPEG file inside a PDF container, thinking that will somehow convert their "logo" into a vector graphics file. They're also the ones more likely to brew their artwork in Canva (since Canva can be used for free). The smaller time outfits are also the ones sending artwork generated by AI bots.
 
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WildWestDesigns

Active Member
It's very rare for a large company to not give me good quality artwork. They typically provide the Adobe-flavored vector files and sometimes include a brand guidelines manual for good measure. In recent memory Goodyear is the only major company where I've had to go round and round with them to get proper vector graphics (Goodyear updated its logo recently).
It might be that they think because of what the majority of what I did that the raster files are enough (ironically they typically are as my process is the same regardless if it's vector or not) or the people that I was dealing with just didn't know better (or a combination of the two), but they automatically give me those. There was a time or two that I had to specifically ask for brand guidelines and the only reason that I did that is because I knew these companies had them.

As to the free, so is Inkscape and actually better (and getting better with better print capabilities, but that's still in alpha/beta right now) compared to Canva. Most of which stems from the web platform that Canva is built on.
 
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