Dry install

[4R Graphics]

Ok well I have been practicing dry installs heres the setup I have a glass panel very well cleaned and the vinyl pieces are 15" wide by 10" or so tall. I wipe it down with alcohol then when I install the vinyl (using both vertical and horizontal hinge techniques) I always have these little bubbles there so small they look like there is a piece of sand under the vinyl but there isnt its clean. I am using a blue 3M PA-1 squegee (do I need a stiffer squegee)? My question is how do I get those tiny bubbles from getting in there or are they industry exceptable? There little like pieces of sand under the vinyl and there are maybe 2 or 3 in a piece measuring 15" X 10". The vinyl I am practicing with are some sample rolls of Arlon. I have been through one roll so far and well I have improved after one full 10 yd roll 15" wide and I think I will do all dry installs from here on out but I really hate those tiny little spots and I have one roll to waste (practice) with so I would like some input from the pro's.

Thanks
Berry

 

[Doyle]

Do a search and you will find dozens of threads about bubbles in vinyl especially applied to glass...... It takes practice but it sounds like you are applying it about as good as any "pro". Everyone has there opinion about whether or not those tiny bubbles will go away over time or not, and I don't care what anyone else says, they DO go away. Maybe not as quickly if it is an indoor application. Many people who have been applying vinyl for years get those tiny little bubbles, and yes they are very annoying.

Usually the smoother and more non-porous the surface, the more bubbles you will get, and of course, glass is the worst. From what you wrote about your results (2 or 3 tiny bubbles for every 15" X 10") I would say that is acceptable. You may have better luck using a different squeegee, I use the 3m gold for EVERYTHING and I still get a tiny static bubble in my window lettering here and there.

If you are not satisfied with your results, Good! Keep practicing, use application fluid, change up your squeegee stroke, whatever gets the best results.

 

[javila]

Clean the window with a scraper. Some stuff doesn't wipe off easily.

 

[N2Harpz]

Let the vinyl go down with a natural bow in it. Not too tight. Then apply with a side to side motion working you way from the tape down. Use only about an inch of the squeegee or the tip. I use the Avery blue one with the felt on the end. Use lots of pressure. This way works best for me. Everyone does it different. If you have to lift the vinyl, I find it best to POP it up with a small jerk... instead of a slow pull. That stetches it.

or

Just use "rapidtac" it's easier ( I almost hate to use that word , It starts a fuss sometimes... LOL)

I even use it on glass. Just spray it REALLY thin and squeegee it out from under the vinyl. Always comes out nice for me.

 

[Gino]

Sometimes not having the application tape squeegeed down properly will bring out bubbles, while not applying enough initial pressure with your squeegeeing motion will cause it. Your first swipes when the vinyl is in place where you want it.... those are the most important strokes of the entire job.

 

[Mike Paul]

Could be a few things. Is the edge of your squeegee smooth & nick free?
The surface you mask your vinyl on should also be smooth. Don't apply app. tape on top of your cutting mat/table.

 

[animenick65]

I find that the cheap blue squeegies (we call them customer squeegies) and the cheap white ones leave bubbles when applying if you don't use enough pressure. I always us a gold squeegie when applying. And sometimes no matter how much you clean and how hard you squeegie, you get bubbles. Pop as many as you can (be careful popping bubbles on glass, can be tricky) and whatever you can't seem to get will possibly go away in the future.

 

[4R Graphics]

Thanks for the replies I have cleaned the glass with a scraper before I started so that wasnt it I think its just a matter of more practice and allowing some imperfections. I have done all of my customers installs wet have great results but wanted to get the dry down to speed up install time and I guess seem more professional as most people here on the forum say do it dry. I think I will do wet installs on glass and dry on most other substrates at least until I get those micro bubbles gone or just learn to except them and sell the customer on "thats normal they SHOULD go away in time" LOL hope I can sell that.


Thanks again
Berry

 

[johnnysigns]

can you mount the thing in a laminator?

 

[imaSIGNr]

Be careful if you do wet install. You may get the bubbles out, but you might not get your application paper off the vinyl for a long time. There is a special fluid for glass.....Don't do wet install if you're using clear appl. paper, only use paper appl.tape.......

 

[Doyle]

As for the bubbles going away, here is a recent example. I did some trailer lettering for a mobile dj service a few months ago, and when my helper installed it, there were TONS of tiny little bubbles, mroe than usual, and I cringed when I looked at it when it was done, but there was no time to redo it because the customer was on his way to pick it and take it to a booking. So, when he got there, the first thing that he noticed were the bubbles (they were the tiny ones that you are speaking of). I told him that something happened during application as we never have that many bubbles on anything that we do, but that when there are bubbles, they go away 99% of the time, but I still offered to re-letter the trailer for no charge (wasn't a very big job, only a 10' trailer cut vinyl). He said no that he would wait and see if the bubbles went away. Just saw him at the gas station the other day with his trailer and I inspected it, not one single bubble....

 

[DirectEffectGraphics]

I would say that it may be your squeegie also. Before I install anything on glass I allways sharpen my squeegie, even the smallest nick will result in the bubbles you are speaking of. Also a cold window will result in bubbles.

 

[OneUpTenn]

I have not been installing vinyl for very long and everyone has their opinion but I swear by application fluid.

I, like you, practiced many many hours before I even knew what application fluid was for....I even had some in the shop just didnt know when to use it.

Now, I love it! I even use it on yard signs if there are large areas of vinyl (not for text) and I rarely have any bubbles.

 

[d fleming]

The longer you install vinyl, the less you will use app fluid. It will still have it's uses for you, they will just be fewer and farther between.

 

[nxtremesign]

another cause of this (tiny bubbles) is not enough pressure, be sure you apply enough pressure , i like to just bend the tip of the squeegee, and always (as said before) make sure that your squeegee is smooth and nick free.

 

[DirectEffectGraphics]

I have never used application fluid, so I will not bad mouth it, do only dry installs only for 11 years now. All I can say is keep praticing and trust me it will turn out the way you want it every time over time...

 

[Samm]

I'd ditch the blue squeegee, go gold.

 

[GARY CULY]

always take a second and wipe off the BACK OF THE DECAL,,you can clean an clean...then you tape up a decal that has been laying in cookie crumbs ...keep the decals clean ..put them in a folded cardboard or chloro flat when transporting them ,,dont toss em in on the seat
on glass after you tape up the decal ,,and center hinge it ,before pulling off the backing paper ,take a SWIFFER,and dust it over the glass area and decal back..this takes off the itty-bittythings....then once you cut off the backing paper..dont terry around ,,get it layed down so the glue isnt exposed but for a very short time ..push the squeegie with confidence and force ..if you hear that vynle in there poppin and snappin ,,its gonna be a good laydown.not pushing enough is a good way to get bubbles ..my .02

 

[bob]

It has nothing whatsoever to do with what color of squeegee you choose, whether or not you opt for application fluid, where you choose to hinge something, the phase of the moon, or any other damn thing but your technique.

Applying vinyl is nothing but technique. If you have the technique you can apply it under most any conditions with most any gear. If you don't you can't.

The technique is one of those things you just have to learn from experience. There are precious few tricks, just experience. In fact, if you think that there are tricks then you probably don't have sufficient experience.

 

[511graphix]

gold here too, and I use to do everything wet and then I got smart (lol) and started just installing dry and its really funny how big of a pice I put down. and people that around helping me that have allways done or have seen it done wet. freak out when I say "no water it just slows me down" lol