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Employee side business
- Thread starter capitate
- Start date
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Might not be an employee for long...
Johnny Best
Active Member
Many years ago that was called "snapping" the sign shop owners looked down upon it. We live supposably in a free society. Its seems fine to me. There is a guy on here named Ikaru, or something like that, who works at a day job and has a resin printer in the garage.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
How is it any different than an electrician doing electrical work on the weekends? You know what happens? They go out to a service call and the customer asks the guy to do more things than what's on the original order. Instead of adding it to the bill, he suggests doing it cash at night or on the weekend. Happens all of the time in trades and this is why places have to inventory their vans, not let them take them home, weigh bottles of refrigerant etc. Not to mention, when people get hurt at their cash side jobs, they often claim it as a W/C issue with their day job. They get real busy, call out sick. Need them to work overtime? They can't because they have a side job to get to.
victor bogdanov
Active Member
I had very good employee of 2 years who was also friends with my mother, who mostly weeded/packaged orders bring her older son to work when we needed extra help and I taught him how to run the cutters part time while he has another full time job. A few months go by and both put in their 2 weeks notice unexpectedly with some lame excuses. At the same time I notice one of my most popular products (simple cut quotes/words) starts slowing down on Amazon. I do some investigating and see that the mother/son opened up their own Amazon store and are selling a very close copy of my best seller. This was a couple of years ago and I would estimate they cost me about 100k in revenue per year on which they are profiting about 30k, about the same the mother was making working for me. They have not expanded their "business" at all since then.
Now I'm very caution of who I teach and what I teach them. Files are way too easy to steal and investment to start doing cut vinyl is very low
Now I'm very caution of who I teach and what I teach them. Files are way too easy to steal and investment to start doing cut vinyl is very low
victor bogdanov
Active Member
Don't allow it, you are paying for their training and creating a competitor
Johnny Best
Active Member
I always figured it was my talent and nobody could tell me what to do with it. I developed it to make money, (in my Russian voice), da, so I make money.
victor bogdanov
Active Member
so why you need 2 jobs then if so talented?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I think it was different when talent was needed to do this work. For probably 97% of the sign shops today, it consists of a computer, a design program, a printer/cutter and some monkey to weed and tape up and make a straight line. Wrapping is a little bit different. Electrical signs are different, Welding and screen printing are different. That makes up a very small percentage of these backyard hacks. Besides, how many of these people take sh!t home from work with them and don't even buy all their own media ??
Years ago, textile printers were notorious for taking stock home and printing in their basements with their borrowed t-shirts, ink and screens.
Years ago, textile printers were notorious for taking stock home and printing in their basements with their borrowed t-shirts, ink and screens.
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victor bogdanov
Active Member
In my situation I was also letting the employee take the decals home to weed so I'm sure there were lots that didn't come back to my shop. Learn from mistakes
petepaz
New Member
unfortunately i don't think you can legally stop them as long as it isn't interfering with the job they do for you. now if they start stealing customers, materials or time then you have a reason to fire them but that's about it.
you can tell them not to do it but then they will do it behind your back with out you knowing.
i am not the owner of our company but i am the only one who does the installs. long story short... i do the installs on my own time and i am paid like a sub contractor (this is because i do so much in the shop it's hard to be out of the shop during normal business hours) i started an llc and it's all legal but from this i have gotten other side install work which is done on my own time and doesn't effect the main company but any complete job i get goes through the company i work for and i do the install then get paid. works out great for me.
i have no real overhead, LLC as a home business so get the benefits of that, 99% of the jobs go through the company i work for so i don't have to worry about getting paid, chasing down money and i don't have out of pocket for materials.
now i have been working like this with the current owners for 22 yrs (total of 33 yrs with the company) i like them, they like me, we can trust each other so it works out well but unfortunately it's not going to work that smooth with most people
you can tell them not to do it but then they will do it behind your back with out you knowing.
i am not the owner of our company but i am the only one who does the installs. long story short... i do the installs on my own time and i am paid like a sub contractor (this is because i do so much in the shop it's hard to be out of the shop during normal business hours) i started an llc and it's all legal but from this i have gotten other side install work which is done on my own time and doesn't effect the main company but any complete job i get goes through the company i work for and i do the install then get paid. works out great for me.
i have no real overhead, LLC as a home business so get the benefits of that, 99% of the jobs go through the company i work for so i don't have to worry about getting paid, chasing down money and i don't have out of pocket for materials.
now i have been working like this with the current owners for 22 yrs (total of 33 yrs with the company) i like them, they like me, we can trust each other so it works out well but unfortunately it's not going to work that smooth with most people
Bengt Backhaus
New Member
I think it's a bad idea.
I've been an emplyee all my 35 years of signmaking.
Two times i had colleagues who had a business on the side. Just small stuff with a plotter at home.
Both times they took stuff from the workplace, tried to win customers over and such.
I believe that if someone starts a competing sidebusiness they definitely have plans for mischief.
If they do massage or something completely different in their own time i have no problem.
I've been an emplyee all my 35 years of signmaking.
Two times i had colleagues who had a business on the side. Just small stuff with a plotter at home.
Both times they took stuff from the workplace, tried to win customers over and such.
I believe that if someone starts a competing sidebusiness they definitely have plans for mischief.
If they do massage or something completely different in their own time i have no problem.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I would estimate most new businesses start because they worked for someone else doing the same thing or something similar. It's part of the chance you take hiring people but if I found out through the grapevine, I would be MAD. If they were honest, I would have to do some thinking on how to handle it.
When my boys started up their business I made them tell their old boss before they were allowed to advertise. At the time they thought it was more because he's one of my biggest customers and I was being selfish (to an extent, this was true). However, he has become my friend over the years and also a friend of my boys. He treated them VERY well and if he had heard the news from someone else, all relationships would likely be ruined. They 3 way called him and told him of their plans and thanked him and said they hoped there would be no hard feelings. His response was very positive. He even gave them some smaller jobs and has hired them both for snow removal this winter.
Going behind peoples back like in Victors employees case is 100% going to end badly. The employee should have a set of balls and be honest, at least there's a CHANCE of starting a working relationship.
When my boys started up their business I made them tell their old boss before they were allowed to advertise. At the time they thought it was more because he's one of my biggest customers and I was being selfish (to an extent, this was true). However, he has become my friend over the years and also a friend of my boys. He treated them VERY well and if he had heard the news from someone else, all relationships would likely be ruined. They 3 way called him and told him of their plans and thanked him and said they hoped there would be no hard feelings. His response was very positive. He even gave them some smaller jobs and has hired them both for snow removal this winter.
Going behind peoples back like in Victors employees case is 100% going to end badly. The employee should have a set of balls and be honest, at least there's a CHANCE of starting a working relationship.
2B
Active Member
We have all employees sign a no-compete waiver and have had a couple of situations where our lawyers got involved with cease and desist. Nothing has escalated to court (knock on wood)
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Ya might not be able to stop it, but ya can make things rough for them. Sounds petty, but why does someone suddenly feel they can go into business along side of their present employer ?? Sure, in some cases like pete's, one compliments the other, but in most cases, the employee thinks he/she can do better and make more money and eventually pull out and leave the boss flat.
Had an employee, oh..... about 31 years ago. Came in late one morning. I was with a customer and he interrupted me and said, we need to talk. I want a raise or else. I said, sure, just let me finish here and we'll get everything straightened out. So, I finished up with the lady and she left. I said, soooo, lee, what's this all about ?? He said, I saw what you charged for those signs I painted last week. He said, I got paid $420 dollars and you charged almost $900. I think I should make more than that, since I did all the work. Oh, do ya ?? Ya know, I paid for all the aluminum, I paid for the heat and lights in this place. I pay the rent. I paid for all the paint and tape. I pay 1/2 your fica and other things. I pay all the insurances and then, I hafta pay the taxes on those signs. In the end, I made about $90 on that deal. Get your things and get the f*ck outta here. I don't wanna ever see you again. But..... but you need me. NO, I DON'T. Get the f*ck out and I'll send ya your last paycheck tomorrow. First, you went through my filing cabinets, then you try to strongarm me in front of a customer, then you wanna cheat me outta money. Go f*ck yourself. He was doing things on the side and taking things home from the shop, but I had looked the other way, so he could boost his income..... that was my payback.
Last I heard, he got outta the sign business and started on drugs. He was a huge musclebound guy and went the other way. About 15 years later, I ran into him and he said he was sorry for what he did. All I said was, I hope ya learned your lesson. That's when he told me how he went downhill.
Had an employee, oh..... about 31 years ago. Came in late one morning. I was with a customer and he interrupted me and said, we need to talk. I want a raise or else. I said, sure, just let me finish here and we'll get everything straightened out. So, I finished up with the lady and she left. I said, soooo, lee, what's this all about ?? He said, I saw what you charged for those signs I painted last week. He said, I got paid $420 dollars and you charged almost $900. I think I should make more than that, since I did all the work. Oh, do ya ?? Ya know, I paid for all the aluminum, I paid for the heat and lights in this place. I pay the rent. I paid for all the paint and tape. I pay 1/2 your fica and other things. I pay all the insurances and then, I hafta pay the taxes on those signs. In the end, I made about $90 on that deal. Get your things and get the f*ck outta here. I don't wanna ever see you again. But..... but you need me. NO, I DON'T. Get the f*ck out and I'll send ya your last paycheck tomorrow. First, you went through my filing cabinets, then you try to strongarm me in front of a customer, then you wanna cheat me outta money. Go f*ck yourself. He was doing things on the side and taking things home from the shop, but I had looked the other way, so he could boost his income..... that was my payback.
Last I heard, he got outta the sign business and started on drugs. He was a huge musclebound guy and went the other way. About 15 years later, I ran into him and he said he was sorry for what he did. All I said was, I hope ya learned your lesson. That's when he told me how he went downhill.
Solventinkjet
DIY Printer Fixing Guide
As a tech whos been in many sign shops around the country big and small I can tell, your employees are doing side hustles behind your backs all the time. It is common for an employee to pull me aside and ask me to work on their machine after work. I'm not saying I agree with it but it's a dog eat dog world out there and people are going to try to get away with what they can.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
There is a difference between having a hobby type side gig and having a side gig that directly competes with your day job. Even still, I have never had good luck with any employees that have done this in any capacity. It becomes a big distraction from the day job.
jochwat
Graphics Department
Some years ago, I was growing weary of the hour-each-way commute to work I'd suffered with for over a dozen years. So, when I heard about a trade show company opening up minutes from my home, I contacted the owners about the possibilities of my working for them. The beginnings of this mistake can be found "documented" on this very website if you choose to seek it out. Real entertaining.
Anyway, it started out great there, and before long it turned into a very unfunny joke. Needless to say, I went through the ol' "we hired you some help, train her, and when she's ready, we'll tell you we can no longer afford you and must lay you off" routine. Didn't even make it a year. And I was let go a month after buying a new vehicle, getting married, and carrying extra debt due to those sort of things. So I went about finding a new job. I had 25 years in the industry, shouldn't be too tough.
Couldn't get back in to my previous job. And then one after another, nothing. Didn't pay much. Wasn't hiring. Will call you later. No calls at all after interviews. Began to wonder if it was my age (had just turned 50 around that time), or was my old boss dragging my name through the dirt through referrals? I don't know. But at that time I started up what would normally be called "side work", if it were on the side of a full-time job. But for me, it was just "work" (it was also part revenge -- trying to take as much small local business away as I could from the jerks who fired me). My little graphics business, run from my house. It would be almost 6 months before someone finally took me in for a regular day job in the print business.
By this time, I was hoping to just slowly grow and keep afloat the side business over the next decade or so, and have a small, established graphics shop. Something to do in retirement because I know we'll need it. Plus, I like it. That's the plan. But now I have a job that has some overlapping work, and as mentioned in many prior messages in this thread, that's not a cool thing to do to your boss.
In order to "have it all", I kept an open conversation about it with him. And I've cut out any overlaps. My day job is mostly about quantity. The owner doesn't have a lot of interest in one-offs or tiny orders (unless it's personal for friends, family, really good customers, etc.). He'd be fine if he never sold another 2' x 3' banner. So I offer those kind of things, really just locally, in a town 40 miles from here (yep, back to that long f**kin' commute again). Single banners, t-shirts, window graphics, etc. Stuff we don't do "at work". Mostly I sub it out, but I just picked up a small cutter and a hat press, and already had the garment press. I asked the boss if I could have vinyl scraps to play around with on the cutter since it was new and not a brand we use here. These are scraps we'd throw away, but I'll still always ask before just walking out with anything.
So what I guess I'm yapping about here is, don't do it on the sly. Don't duplicate your day gig (wouldn't your boss rather you brought that work to him?). Don't steal stuff. Not tools. Not materials. Nothing. And if the boss says no one of those requests even if it seems honest (like, no, I'd rather you not bring home scraps even though they always go right to the dumpster), honor it. That's all I got!
Anyway, it started out great there, and before long it turned into a very unfunny joke. Needless to say, I went through the ol' "we hired you some help, train her, and when she's ready, we'll tell you we can no longer afford you and must lay you off" routine. Didn't even make it a year. And I was let go a month after buying a new vehicle, getting married, and carrying extra debt due to those sort of things. So I went about finding a new job. I had 25 years in the industry, shouldn't be too tough.
Couldn't get back in to my previous job. And then one after another, nothing. Didn't pay much. Wasn't hiring. Will call you later. No calls at all after interviews. Began to wonder if it was my age (had just turned 50 around that time), or was my old boss dragging my name through the dirt through referrals? I don't know. But at that time I started up what would normally be called "side work", if it were on the side of a full-time job. But for me, it was just "work" (it was also part revenge -- trying to take as much small local business away as I could from the jerks who fired me). My little graphics business, run from my house. It would be almost 6 months before someone finally took me in for a regular day job in the print business.
By this time, I was hoping to just slowly grow and keep afloat the side business over the next decade or so, and have a small, established graphics shop. Something to do in retirement because I know we'll need it. Plus, I like it. That's the plan. But now I have a job that has some overlapping work, and as mentioned in many prior messages in this thread, that's not a cool thing to do to your boss.
In order to "have it all", I kept an open conversation about it with him. And I've cut out any overlaps. My day job is mostly about quantity. The owner doesn't have a lot of interest in one-offs or tiny orders (unless it's personal for friends, family, really good customers, etc.). He'd be fine if he never sold another 2' x 3' banner. So I offer those kind of things, really just locally, in a town 40 miles from here (yep, back to that long f**kin' commute again). Single banners, t-shirts, window graphics, etc. Stuff we don't do "at work". Mostly I sub it out, but I just picked up a small cutter and a hat press, and already had the garment press. I asked the boss if I could have vinyl scraps to play around with on the cutter since it was new and not a brand we use here. These are scraps we'd throw away, but I'll still always ask before just walking out with anything.
So what I guess I'm yapping about here is, don't do it on the sly. Don't duplicate your day gig (wouldn't your boss rather you brought that work to him?). Don't steal stuff. Not tools. Not materials. Nothing. And if the boss says no one of those requests even if it seems honest (like, no, I'd rather you not bring home scraps even though they always go right to the dumpster), honor it. That's all I got!