Need Help First Wrap

[MHester]

I'm going to attempt my first wrap and could use some advice.
1) Do you recommend a print and cut for the water, website text, and blue logo instead of one solid sheet covering the whole thing?
2)sooooooo many rivets. ugh! Kill me! I hear that Rollepro is the way to go?
3) Since there are so many rivets, I was thinking of oracal 751. Thoughts? Using HP Latex printer
I had a sample of 3M IJ1802 control tac w/comply, and boy oh boy, I couldn't stand the smell of it when it went through my latex printer. Stung my eyes, the aroma was so pungent. Why/what made it do that, and does the Oracal 751 have the same issue?
4) Laminate the vinyl, of course, got any recommendations on lam stock? I use Advantage as my supplier.

Thanks all for your help..obvious newbie here.... The good thing is, if I screw up the job,it's ok, it's one of my company trucks and I can just redo it.

 

[Dennis422]

1) You could go either way. A bit more prep with the vinyl on print/cut instead of straight wrap. On the other hand, lot less issues with rivets.
2) Rollepro
3) I stock Avery 1105 RS EZ and DOL1360Z, I would use that if I was doing it. Do you mean Oracfol 3751RA? 751 is a regular cut vinyl Oracal is much more aggressive than Avery when installing tho (Adhesive).
4) YES. With Avery use DOL1360Z. If you go with Orafol 3751RA use their 290 laminate.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Full wrap, don't cut that out. The avery suggested would be my first choice, or 3m ij180cv3 each with matching lams. Don't use the 751. Its not a print media. Rollepro the rivets or use a soft foam paint roller, like the 4" ones.

Or send it to a wrap shop in the area....hint hint...we are in NC and not to far from you. Could easily knock that out in less that a day.

 

[2B]

DK summed it up,

we have been a long time Oracal 3751 & 290 user but have had recent issues of imprint quality and the installers are tired of the initial tack that 3751 has over the other options
So we are looking to change over to Avery

 

[jfiscus]

Wait, are you in the graphics industry, or the carwash industry printing in-house?

Do it all as a wrap, you're actually going to waste more material and time doing it all as print/cut. Use quality cast material with air release and appropriate laminate.

 

[mmblarg]

only going to answer the first two since you use a different printer/material than us.

1. Decide what matters more to you
cut graphics - Pros: less material used, more flexibility in laying it down (can cut between lettering to make application easier and correct install mistakes) Cons: more prep with weeding, taping, and possibility of cutter getting off. Will have a harder time with rivets on cut vinyl regardless of using the rollepro.

Full sheets - Pros: less prep. Much easier to create the channels and rollepro the crap out of those. Cons: less forgiving with wrinkles and install flaws, Uses more material.

2. Yes rollepro it up - but absolutely use an air release controltac vinyl.

 

[eahicks]

Full wraps on sides, for sure. You're wasting a small amount vinyl doing print and cut, and you're adding a lot more labor doing so. 4 or 5 full sheets on each side, pretty quick install. No loading plotter, or hand cutting on table.

 

[MHester]

Wait, are you in the graphics industry, or the carwash industry printing in-house?

Do it all as a wrap, you're actually going to waste more material and time doing it all as print/cut. Use quality cast material with air release and appropriate laminate.

We're a carwash equipment manufacturer that has an inhouse print department. I make decals, banners, and laminated signs all day long for my company and over 3000 customers.

 

[MHester]

Ya'll are very helpful, thank you. Next question.....wet install vs. dry install. Avery needs to be heated and shrunk, right?

 

[eahicks]

Ya'll are very helpful, thank you. Next question.....wet install vs. dry install. Avery needs to be heated and shrunk, right?

Good lord, not wet. That is why you use air release vinyl. And heat is not used to shrink anything....more to conform; in this case, to conform to the rivets.

 

[Jamie Levey]

Love Avery MPI 1105...been using it for years. Full wrap, but if you're uncomfortable with getting the type straight, you can cut the type & overlay. Little more work, but easier installl.
Never wet install with EZRS. Feel free to call me if you need some phone support.
386.281.

 

[Jamie Levey]

386.281.5164

 

[printhog]

Man you are LITERALLY ASKING FOR THE BASICS WE ALL HAVE PAID $ TO LEARN.. AND YOURE NOT A SIGN COMPANY.. I thought this site was exclusively for sign professionals, and especially not for those outside the trade seeking our knowledge and under cutting our investment in our businesses. I'd imagine there was a sign shop that provided this service to your fime before you bought that printer. Why dont you call them?

I'd recommend you hire a professional sign consultant at the least, and pay to learn what we've all invested in.. there are classes.. take one. But most importantly - leave this site. This is for sign professionals, not firms seeking to save a $ by cutting the trade out and doing it themselves. SMH. and reported to admins.

 

[Bly]

No need to use expensive cast on that flat thing.
Use a cheap monomeric.

 

[Jamie Levey]

Man you are LITERALLY ASKING FOR THE BASICS WE ALL HAVE PAID $ TO LEARN.. AND YOURE NOT A SIGN COMPANY.. I thought this site was exclusively for sign professionals, and especially not for those outside the trade seeking our knowledge and under cutting our investment in our businesses. I'd imagine there was a sign shop that provided this service to your fime before you bought that printer. Why dont you call them?

I'd recommend you hire a professional sign consultant at the least, and pay to learn what we've all invested in.. there are classes.. take one. But most importantly - leave this site. This is for sign professionals, not firms seeking to save a $ by cutting the trade out and doing it themselves. SMH. and reported to admins.

Wow, Printhog...you're an angry elf!
Yes, we did all spend countless dollars learning the trade and it's true there are no shortcuts, but do you really think he's affecting your business or our industry?! Have some compassion man! If he doesn't have the experience to do the job correctly, he won't be saving money and will most likely spend more, but he obviously has some knowledge and is reaching out for help. We should always work to raise the bar in our industry (good products, quality installs, etc), but should not be opposed to giving a hand up to a newbie...which we all were at one time!
Peace, Love, & Plotters!

 

[Johnny Best]

I agree with printhog on his rant about the guy not being a sign company. If more and more businesses started doing their own signage as this company has, we would all be out of sign business real soon. So yes in a round about way he is affecting everyones business. Fellers sells to anyone and now this, you better start taking this stuff seriously and stop giving out advice to anyone who joins these forums. At lease this guy was honest telling what he was doing. How many others on here are in that same situation.

 

[Jamie Levey]

I agree with printhog on his rant about the guy not being a sign company. If more and more businesses started doing their own signage as this company has, we would all be out of sign business real soon. So yes in a round about way he is affecting everyones business. Fellers sells to anyone and now this, you better start taking this stuff seriously and stop giving out advice to anyone who joins these forums. At lease this guy was honest telling what he was doing. How many others on here are in that same situation.

I respect your opinion (as well as printhogs)...I just don't think that a guy who owns a printer & runs his own graphics will ever take us out of the game. Honestly, I'm more worried about the fly-by-nights that undercut pricing to make a quick buck and then disapear. They are giving sign guys a bad name & proporting a false image on the industry. It's amazing how much time I spend explaining to people why their vinyl is fading, peeling, etc. After they went for the low bid...

 

[dale911]

I agree with both viewpoints here in different ways. That's aside, this forum was created for sign professionals only and it is starting to look like the new owners could care less and are leaving the borders wide open for anyone and everyone. This will lead to the real pros being less likely to post good answers or being in the good questions. I have used this board a ton over the years in obtaining info to keep my business afloat as I was learning and now things are taking off very well but I don't know that I will spend a lot of time and energy teaching new people how to do stuff for themselves. I also question whether the company he works for is actually saving money after his salary, poor training and all that equipment they purchased in the hopes of "saving" any money.


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[ikarasu]

If he has a printer, and a plotter, and a laminator, what's wrong with him asking questions here? Obviously he's "In the business", whether it's a side business or what. If he makes decals for customers, and does his own in-house printing, what more do you want from him? the average business is not going to go buy a $10-30K printer, $5-10K laminator, and 5-10K plotter, just to make his own decals / vinyl his own trucks. Think about how much work he'd have to be farming out in order to make that cash back.

I'd use 180, with 8518 overlam. Or 8520, if you want it to be graffiti proof.

I'd suggest you print 1 panel first, and try to do it yourself. Anyone can do decals, wrapping is a whole other ball game. Especially with that many rivets...

Some other things to consider -

How are your graphics laid out? Are you printing overlap, to make sure they align properly? This time of year.. you will need a heatgun to get good adhesion. And definitely need it for the rivets.

There are a lot of things that come into play here. You could try it yourself, but honestly... It probably wont look good (Mis-aligned, rivets will look really bad until you get the hang of it, etc), Or it'll come off in a few months because lack of prep / proper installation.

Look for a professional wrapper, or see if a local sign shop will come install / let you watch. It shouldn't be TOO much since you're providing the graphics and everything... And you'll learn the proper way of doing it. It's all about technique, not just knowledge of how. Use it as a business expense... you can see it as an opportunity to expand your business.

A place that does car washes, and car wraps?! Why not! Lots of money in car wraps, and you already have the machines to do it... I'm presuming you have a graphic designer, since the graphics on your truck look pretty good.

 

[printhog]

While I don't know the guy, I do know the effect that in-house sign operations like he's describing have on our business. I had a pool supply company go in house for their trade show work. Next thing they were doing their trucks. Okay fine. But then they started giving graphics away to pool service guys who bought supplies thru them. They had over 2000 clients. With just one truck each that's $400,000 of truck lettering business the local shops lost. Or basically two local sign shops closed down completely so a marketing manager can have the very cheapest graphics.

When a firm uses its funds to diversify into a trade this way it seldom knows the retail prices and value of the work they are undercutting. Is just a balance sheet item.

Let's face it folks, you can't make signs for material cost or free, but firms like this can. It's the internal marketing model. I'm basing my opinion on that assumption. I assume since he doesn't know anything about the wrap process, he's never even bought one. And I know that in-house media destroys local businesses. No one can compete with a firm that can do it for material cost.

Every sign supplier out there will sell a printer to anyone. It's a free market. But they don't teach. And tradespeople don't have to provide support to those folks. Get serious about whose really eating your lunch. Is it the cheap guy, or the big company with a graphics department doing work at cost? Budweiser, Pepsi, coke, in my market all of their distributors have in house sign shops and do work at media cost only. You'll never sell to one of their clients.

If this firm was seriously invested in the sign making side as a profit center they'd hire experienced staff to do this and wouldn't be asking these simple questions. It's likely a company that wants signs as cheap as possible and without regard to the effect that behavior has on the overall trade. Rant over.

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