Five or more Pantone colours

sjm

New Member
In addition to RGB and CMYK images in one creative. How would you tackle a reoccurring project like this?

All this while at the same time ensuring you deliver quality colour and at the end of the day still get paid.
 

sjm

New Member
Not dumb, you just haven't been involved in the International Council of Shopping Centers Trade Show.
 

sjm

New Member
How does one match to 5 individual companies PMS colours along with RGB and CMYK images in the same artwork? At the same time keeping all parties happy while getting paid.

Salmoneye thanks for pointing that out.
 

luggnut

New Member
would depend a little on how much the different types (cmyk , rgb , pms) were intermixed.... say all were in a jpg together you would have to have a compromise on colors .... if some had raster effects and gradients again more compromise, but it was say a jpg background with pms vector logos on top and some cmyk vectors...

in flexi i can set the individual colors of the color palette to render in different manners... (you would have to do your vector designs in flexi for that though ugh!)

you can also set different rendering intents for cmyk vectors, rgb vectors, cmyk bitmaps, rgb bitmaps..etc.. in the RIP settings.

i have run into problems with illustrators drop shadows with the different rendering settings.. by default in flexis RIP rasters are set to perceptual and illy's drop shadow is a raster effect and is render as a raster so if i had a vector above another vector object and a shadow (that would look great inside illy) the shadow once printed would be a square area with a lighter color and the shadow in it...
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I usually ask for a printer to print out the pantone color swatched on the printer that will be used... if the color was that important to my client and I would try to match to the printers swatches.

When I was a printer monkey, I would send the pantone color swatches to the designer and have them do it. Once they got their Pantone book and matched it to the digital print, they usually got the point and made whatever adjustments that were needed. If I had a picky one, and they insisted on color matching, I needed placed files so I could adjust them or the source files to build the file and matched them that way.
 

sjm

New Member
would depend a little on how much the different types (cmyk , rgb , pms) were intermixed.... say all were in a jpg together you would have to have a compromise on colors .... if some had raster effects and gradients again more compromise, but it was say a jpg background with pms vector logos on top and some cmyk vectors...

in flexi i can set the individual colors of the color palette to render in different manners... (you would have to do your vector designs in flexi for that though ugh!)

you can also set different rendering intents for cmyk vectors, rgb vectors, cmyk bitmaps, rgb bitmaps..etc.. in the RIP settings.

i have run into problems with illustrators drop shadows with the different rendering settings.. by default in flexis RIP rasters are set to perceptual and illy's drop shadow is a raster effect and is render as a raster so if i had a vector above another vector object and a shadow (that would look great inside illy) the shadow once printed would be a square area with a lighter color and the shadow in it...

luggnut, it can not be run on a commercial press (PMS was designed for the press). It would take a 9 colour press costing millions of dollars, and a 1 off is not pratical. We'll leave the size limit of a press aside.

How can you expect to match PMS on a $10K digital CMYK printer?
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Oh I forgot, did they send you a hard proof to match the rgb and cmyk images too?
 

insignia

New Member
How can you expect to match PMS on a $10K digital CMYK printer?

Spend another $10k in equipment and time to build dead on perfect profiles to get you 97% there. Then accept that you cannot and will not ever, under any circumstances, match every PMS color in the book on a 4-color, 6-color, 8-color etc. printer, be it an inkjet, offset or lightjet.

Process output is just that: process. It has limitations. It's not spot color printing. Your client has to understand that, and you have to not beat yoursef up if you can't hit some obscure PMS color absolutely accurately.
 

sjm

New Member
what about the epson CMYKOG printer?

What about it? Pantone is in the business of selling colour swatches.

http://www.kyoceramita.com.au/aboutus/awards/Pages/Pantone.aspx

These PANTONE Colour Look-up Tables (LUT) are developed by Pantone, Inc for the Kyocera TASKalfa 500ci Series to generate the closest possible simulation of each colour by this printer. By following the enclosed instructions and importing these colour LUT’s to specific desktop publishing software, you can generate PANTONE colours with this printer.
PANTONE® Colours displayed here may not match PANTONE-identified standards. Consult current PANTONE Colour Publications for accurate colour.

I just happened to pick this one.

Close simulation but not bang on ... why would they say that if they were so confident seeing they certified it?

I would be interested in reading that Pantone claims Epson's CMYKOG Printer hits PMS colours to the Pantone Standard bang on.

Please post a link.
 

sjm

New Member
Oh I forgot, did they send you a hard proof to match the rgb and cmyk images too?

Yes, a hardcopy must always be submitted. You know from memory we can't rely on what is sky blue or for that matter what is tomatoe red. We can guess what the other person thinks but that's all we can do without a hardcopy proof.
 

astro8

New Member
How does one match to 5 individual companies PMS colours along with RGB and CMYK images in the same artwork? At the same time keeping all parties happy while getting paid.

Salmoneye thanks for pointing that out.


Print on our Epson GS6000's, relative/relative and name the PMS colours in the .eps or .pdf file so the ErgoRip picks them up ans replaces them from it's look up table...do it everyday.
 

Mosh

Member
We run PMS matched stuff all the time. All in your profiles. You have to know your equipment!
 

sjm

New Member
Print on our Epson GS6000's, relative/relative and name the PMS colours in the .eps or .pdf file so the ErgoRip picks them up ans replaces them from it's look up table...do it everyday.

I don't disagree but it's still only a simulation and you can only match 90% of the PMS colours in CMYKOG. There's no getting around that, regardless of the intent you use.

So the client will have to settle on those 10% that do not match as a compromise because there is no other practical way of running the job. Which was my opening argument.
 

astro8

New Member
I don't disagree but it's still only a simulation and you can only match 90% of the PMS colours in CMYKOG. There's no getting around that, regardless of the intent you use.

So the client will have to settle on those 10% that do not match as a compromise because there is no other practical way of running the job. Which was my opening argument.

In theory CMYKOG will 'match' well over 90% of your srgb color space and 94% of Pantone Solid Coated Colours...I haven't came across a PMS or any colour for that matter printed on the Epson that wasn't an acceptable match apart from the metallics and such of course.

I know it may sound like BS and I was very sceptical of this printer myself before I actually saw it with my own eyes after having used CMYK, CMYKOG and CMYKLcLm and even CMYKMmMcLmLc printers for years.

The Roland CMYKOGLcLm printers also did a great job of PMS colours but the only ones I used were waterbased until I converted Mimakis to CMYKOG solvents...they were good, but not a patch on these new Epsons that have the LcLm and tiny drop size.


EDIT: Actually the Hexachrome gamut falls somewhere between srgb and Adobe98 - pretty good in anyone's book.
 

sjm

New Member
In theory CMYKOG will 'match' well over 90% of your srgb color space and 94% of Pantone Solid Coated Colours...I haven't came across a PMS or any colour for that matter printed on the Epson that wasn't an acceptable match apart from the metallics and such of course.

I know it may sound like BS and I was very sceptical of this printer myself before I actually saw it with my own eyes after having used CMYK, CMYKOG and CMYKLcLm and even CMYKMmMcLmLc printers for years.

The Roland CMYKOGLcLm printers also did a great job of PMS colours but the only ones I used were waterbased until I converted Mimakis to CMYKOG solvents...they were good, but not a patch on these new Epsons that have the LcLm and tiny drop size.


EDIT: Actually the Hexachrome gamut falls somewhere between srgb and Adobe98 - pretty good in anyone's book.

If what you say is true, the Pantone Hexachrome System is also based on CMYKOG. Did Adobe just forget to include the Pantone Hexachrome System in CS3?
 

heyskull

New Member
All i can say, is such a fusy client paying for even understands why we can't match everything!
I state "all colours on our system are a simulation and therfore cannot be matched 100%.
Our system is just CMYK I pity you if you are running CMYKOGLcLm as you will be expected to match everything and you cant with just 8 colours in your palette.
I hate colour matching as normally a client will give me a colour whch is impossible to match or i just don't have the time!

SC
 
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