Flatbed Print limits?

[Kentucky Wraps]

I uploaded a JPG to a printer wholesaler (they do signs every day of the year)
for direct uv flatbed print to coro yardsigns.

What I got back was slightly different than what I sent. The lighter details in the background completely dropped out to solid black and the outline around the text disappeared accordingly. (Example Below)

I'm wondering if this is a toleration limitation of that type of printer or if it's a lower quality setting they use or what?

 

[Asuma01]

I dont see how they could end up with a result like that unless they deliberately edited out the background and your outlines. That said why dont you ask them what happened?

 

[Mosh]

You need to send better artwork. I have had the same thing on our roll machines happen. I always shoot back a PDF to proof, just in case this happens.

 

[fresh]

http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?113920-Why-I-hate-outsourcing&highlight=signs365

See this thread. I've had similar results as you with photographic backgrounds, the color gets all washed out and mangled.

Just for fun, doesn't that wholesaler include an image on the outside of the packaging or invoice? What does that look like?

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

You need to send better artwork. I have had the same thing on our roll machines happen. I always shoot back a PDF to proof, just in case this happens.

This isn't about layout or digital proofing. It's about what the printer got as a jpg and what they printed.

Yes the background is dark but it's not black and you can distinguish between it and the black outlined text in the jpg.
So are you saying that the printer cannot distinguish between the grey in the background and the black?

 

[WYLDGFI]

Our machine would produce nearly exactly what you sent...within reason of course. Background photo would be there and visible, I can see the roof pattern there. The Outline on the text that was lost is inexcusable as well. Poor print and QC job.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Ok so is it perhaps a setting on their end and not a tolerance issue with UV Flatbed printing to coro?

 

[fozzie]

we've run a hp fb950 for a long time. imho, that is operator error/bad or no profiling/ etc. any flatbed, properly profiled and maintained, will come close to your jpg file.
not looking like the pos they sent.

 

[WYLDGFI]

KW....absolutely its the printer's fault on that one.

 

[Gino]

We provide lotsa flatbed prints for neighboring sign shops as well as many members of this site. We've had a complaint here or there, but have many go through without a hitch Something we try to do is have the customer send us a hard copy. Sometimes the way one sends a file isn't always opened in the same manner due to some stoopid glitch. Can't be explained, but it happens.

Twice the word .jpg was mentioned here. How on earth could the printer re-invent a raster image. The type is the same. The colors are basically the same, but an effect was lost. It seems to me someone didn't send a proper file and what they saw on their end isn't what you see on your end. Result ?? You no likey.

 

[WYLDGFI]

If its a .jpg file...its raster. Theres no doubting a pixel is a pixel in that. It all comes down to the software/printer operators paying attention to what they are doing and making sure, what they see on the screen is what they're getting on output. If it were some sort of eps file and an image wasn't embedded properly, I can see some sort of issue but the flag should've been raised immediately at that point to call the client and make the case for a different file.

 

[Gino]

If its a .jpg file...its raster. Theres no doubting a pixel is a pixel in that. It all comes down to the software/printer operators paying attention to what they are doing and making sure, what they see on the screen is what they're getting on output. If it were some sort of eps file and an image wasn't embedded properly, I can see some sort of issue but the flag should've been raised immediately at that point to call the client and make the case for a different file.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking/saying...how can you or I change a raster file........ if we didn't create it ?? It's totally un-editable. How was all the outline stuff completely eliminated without changing the background around it ?? If for some reason the printer's software did not pick up the black outline or brick outline..... how did it put the background back in it's place. Also, why would someone do this ?? It's gotta be more work than doing what is in front of you.

Without a hard copy.... how can anyone be sure either side has been looking at the same end-result ??

We're seeing KW's version. What does 365's version look like on their screen ?? Perhaps, they don't know about the black dropping out, if they never saw it to begin with. Has something dropped out due to a software glitch ??

 

[BobCap]

Similar issue...

Besides having a sign shop I also have a digital print shop. I get files sent to me to print on our large format printers that sometimes look perfect on the monitor and turn to crap when printed.

I had one the other day that might shed some light.

After much hair pulling I had the customer send it to me as a native AI file. It had a item in the file that we found had an ICC profile embedded in it. Changed the whole way it printed.

Maybe...Maybe not.

 

[HulkSmash]

Our flatbed will print nearly exactly what you sent as a proof. They most likely sent it on a billboard pass, since it is a yard sign..even though - it should be dialed in enough to get most of that detail.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking/saying...how can you or I change a raster file........ if we didn't create it ?? It's totally un-editable. How was all the outline stuff completely eliminated without changing the background around it ?? If for some reason the printer's software did not pick up the black outline or brick outline..... how did it put the background back in it's place. Also, why would someone do this ?? It's gotta be more work than doing what is in front of you.

Without a hard copy.... how can anyone be sure either side has been looking at the same end-result ??

We're seeing KW's version. What does 365's version look like on their screen ?? Perhaps, they don't know about the black dropping out, if they never saw it to begin with. Has something dropped out due to a software glitch ??

For the record...I never said it was signs365.

I know about file sharing and element drop out etc.
I'm not saying the file was manipulated on their end.
In fact all you have to do is lower the brightness and raise the contrast on that very jpg and you will see the exact same thing.
Could their output do that? Or their rip program that sets it for print alter it like that just enough that those darker colors just get darkened enough that they become black?

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Frankly I think it looks just fine having a solid black background. I just don't know if my customer will care or not.
This is for future reference so that I know what I can and can't send to them for yard sign graphics.

 

[WYLDGFI]

Besides having a sign shop I also have a digital print shop. I get files sent to me to print on our large format printers that sometimes look perfect on the monitor and turn to crap when printed.

I had one the other day that might shed some light.

After much hair pulling I had the customer send it to me as a native AI file. It had a item in the file that we found had an ICC profile embedded in it. Changed the whole way it printed.

Maybe...Maybe not.

Our rip soft are has the option of either allowing the embedded profile to assist in color management or strip it out and ignore it. We typically strip it out as we know our equipment is dialed in with the profile we have and settings for the inks. We wouldn't have an issue doing this job even in high pass. The detail would not be lost...you'd still be able to see that its a roof and a black outline around the lettering.

 

[HulkSmash]

as i mentioned before it is possible to hit what you're exactly wanting, but it is going to require more passes on a flatbed. Typically cheap yard signs are done on the fastest setting, and sold for next to nothing. If you want it to be more detailed you should request production mode over billboard mode. HQ mode would be overkill.

but what you see there is pretty typical for work of this nature.

And Gino, file type doesn't matter. PDF's full size, and JPGs full size will print the same.

 

[HulkSmash]

Also, i feel like this file should have been saved in RGB, not CMYK.

 

[WYLDGFI]

Also, i feel like this file should have been saved in RGB, not CMYK.

That depends on the printer and software. Certain colors come out much better for us if CMYK originally. The greens would pop a bit more, but the overall image is better on my equipment as the CMYK. Getting back to the original issue at hand, that print shipped out should not have gone out.