Flexi, Onyx, Caldera etc etc... compare and contrast

[letterman7]

In short, I'm needing to upgrade some equipment, computers primarily. I've been using Flexi forever, but only as a RIP. In fact, I'm still on version 8.0v2! I've been trying to read through all the various threads on all the different RIP's out there and really haven't found "the one" that is a) relatively easy to set up, b) doesn't require my wallet to be emptied on a monthly basis and c) only acts as a RIP for printing. I'm not doing wraps, I'm not doing huge printed projects so I don't need a bunch of bells and whistles in the program (tiling, project management, multiple printer output etc).

While I would like to retain Flexi just for the fact that I have all my profiles set already (and regular customers saved as specific color files), I'm not opposed to trying something fresh if it gives me something a little "better" in appearance. Does anyone have a favorite and why?

Rick

 

[balstestrat]

You can still purchase Flexi with a permanent license if you want to upgrade. You probably get most bang for buck with that.
Then you have the cheaper less features versions of Onyx, Postershop and RIPCenter. Those you can purchase with a permanent license.
I don't think you can really get a cheap version of Caldera. You will just end up with the full version which is the most expensive of these three.

If you really want to try something, test Onyx first before bying it. Take the trial or even the monthly version and see if that offers you something of value.
None of these is easy to set-up if you don't know anything about it. Caldera the least. Onyx is still pretty doable if you have some sense of how things work.

 

[rjssigns]

Stay with Flexi. I'm back with it after a number of years away. Bought a permanent license for Flexi Pro when I got my new printer. Unless there is something weird I have to deal with 100% of my work is done with Flexi. I have an old computer in my office with Flexi Pro 8.something on it.
Onyx...not a fan. Some folks swear by it. YMMV.
I don't know anything about Caldera.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Point A is going to be relative the user. So while something may seem easy to me, may not be to the next person. B. That's going to get harder and harder to find, atleast with any of the primo ones with name recognition. C. I have always been the better to have it and not need it then not to have it and need it kinda guy.

Your Flexi, I believe that the v8 one was also available on Mac, is that the version that you have or is it on Windows? If on Windows, for Caldera, your upgrade will also include going to either Linux (those that know my zealotry know which side I am on this one, even though I'm not a pure Debian fan) or going to Mac as it is unix-like only and does not have a Windows port. So if you go with Caldera on Mac option, you'll have a much bigger cash outlay for the Mac computer and then Caldera on top of that.

 

[letterman7]

WWD - I'm Windows based. Bal - I looked on the SAi site and all I saw were monthly subscriptions. I'll have to look again for a permanent license. I'd rather do a single outlay of cash than a monthly bill.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

letterman7 , they try to make it not very easy to find. It reminds me of what Qt tries to do when one is looking for the open source versus commercial version.

Design & Print Software | SAi Flexi | Print & Cut Software | SAi

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www.thinksai.com

 

[karst41]

In short, I'm needing to upgrade some equipment, computers primarily. I've been using Flexi forever, but only as a RIP. In fact, I'm still on version 8.0v2! I've been trying to read through all the various threads on all the different RIP's out there and really haven't found "the one" that is a) relatively easy to set up, b) doesn't require my wallet to be emptied on a monthly basis and c) only acts as a RIP for printing. I'm not doing wraps, I'm not doing huge printed projects so I don't need a bunch of bells and whistles in the program (tiling, project management, multiple printer output etc).

While I would like to retain Flexi just for the fact that I have all my profiles set already (and regular customers saved as specific color files), I'm not opposed to trying something fresh if it gives me something a little "better" in appearance. Does anyone have a favorite and why?

Rick

Flexi is ok. I been using it over 30 years.
This is a hybrid CAD/Illustration software and the full program is Expensive to buy.

This is also what you use to Make Money, and without,,,,,.
Important is that we view Software as a TOOL. So dont hesitate to shell out
and buy. Yeah I do not want to shell out $4k Large either.
Flexi Subscription is the way to go $59 month.

I looked at Caldera, Wasatch, and Onyx. On some of these you only get
One Printer and One Cutter,,,,,,,Bull 'ish!

As you already know.; If you have a seiko and a Roland and a mutoh and 5 different plotters, Flexi has no real limitations.

Most of the other RIPs require you to PAY for additional. Aint that some 'ish.

Stick with what you know and get back to work.
If you download now yu wll be back in full production in less than an Hour.


BEWARE!!!!!! At flexi 11 so Diff was removed from the Rendering intent.
Open a typical print file and open it in the PM.

Look at the Rendering Intent. If it say SO DIFF. then ALL of your Profiles are going to be useless when you upgrade. BUT This could be limited to HP Printers.

Call SAI and ask if SO Diff will be available for your printer in the rendering intent.
If you never use SO Diff then all of this is a moot point.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Important is that we view Software as a TOOL. So dont hesitate to shell out

I could get behind the first part, if that is shelling out to get what you need done in the most efficient way possible. Not just for shelling out sake. Otherwise, we should be all on Macs, afterall, if less is more, then just think about what more more is.

and buy. Yeah I do not want to shell out $4k Large either.
Flexi Subscription is the way to go $59 month.

It all depends. 2 scenarios for a person to consider.

1. The first is one that always likes to update and be on the latest and greatest. Now with the subscription model, it's always the flat monthly price. No upgrade discount like you would get (more often then not) with the traditional license. The trick here is, how often a meaningful new version will be released and compare that with the upgrading every version with both routes. For instance, when Adobe had both with 5.5 and 6, I priced both out, upgrade what I needed every new version and it would take 7 yrs (which is beyond that now) before it cost me less to upgrade with the traditional method versus the subscription method (Adobe had the same calculation, but if I remember correctly they stopped at 3 to 4 yrs out). Now that assumed that price was constant, which I knew neither one would have been. Now this is what I needed, not exactly what I wanted. I am not saying that is the case here, just something to think of to make sure.

2. The second is that they keep a version for as long as they can and not upgrade until one has to. I got CS6 in 2012 if I recall correctly, I can still put it up in a VM and it still goes (I don't run the VM like I once did, but that option is still there). That's a lot of $50 (now $54 if I recall correctly) in savings. That same type of thing can be applied here. Now, this is only meaningful for traditional license purchase if "you" are going to keep the program until it goes beyond that point. Considering the OP is still on V8, the odds could be good.

Most of the other RIPs require you to PAY for additional. Aint that some 'ish.

That really isn't anything. There is one really good software in my area that starts at $3k and goes up to $15k depending on what modules you want or if you get all of them. The home version that this particular vendor has is $1500. That's for a home version. It too is a combo CAD/Illustration program (directly interfaces with DRAW), although technically I have a broader definition of CAD programs, but I digress. Niche software is never going to be cheap.

 

[letterman7]

Agreed on everyone's points. Really, the only reason I'm asking is I'm upgrading computer power and Win7,of course, is no longer supported. But who gives a rat about that - as long as I have the speed and storage I need, I don't care about what OS it's on. That said, I did have a conversation with a sales rep at Flexi today about different options, and boy, was she pushing the subscription and only peripherally told me about FlexiPrint - which is all I need - at a $2K up front purchase. Oh, and if I upgraded, all my profiles would be rendered moot since it's going from a 32 bit system to a 64 bit system.. which would mean trying to re-match literally hundreds, if not close to a thousand, previously printed items for repeat clients. So... how much is my time worth to do that versus keeping what I have going? I have a computer buddy that is pretty sure he can build a kick-ass system with a Win7 compatible motherboard.. we'll see. I know it's not the "right" thing for many people in the long haul, but I won't be in this business forever

 

[WildWestDesigns]

What about VMing Win 7? Isolate it from the rest of the system, that why it doesn't matter what happens with Win 10/11 updates (for the most part) and don't have to worry about compatibility of hardware. Biggest drawback is that if the system isn't properly specced out to run VMs, the experience will be lackluster (VMing would definitely not be overkill with a workstation grade computer).

At $2k, I think that would be about 3 yrs on Flexi subscription. So if you would be on that Flexi version longer then 3 yrs, it would be best to do the traditional license.

The fact that they are pushing subscription should tell people that it isn't going to be good for the end user, but that of the OEM. Just sayin.

 

[letterman7]

What about VMing Win 7? Isolate it from the rest of the system, that why it doesn't matter what happens with Win 10/11 updates (for the most part) and don't have to worry about compatibility of hardware. Biggest drawback is that if the system isn't properly specced out to run VMs, the experience will be lackluster (VMing would definitely not be overkill with a workstation grade computer).

At $2k, I think that would be about 3 yrs on Flexi subscription. So if you would be on that Flexi version longer then 3 yrs, it would be best to do the traditional license.

The fact that they are pushing subscription should tell people that it isn't going to be good for the end user, but that of the OEM. Just sayin.

We (my computer guy and I) actually tried that. It wouldn't recognize any of the dongles for Flexi or Corel (I run CoCut). Spent about 3 hours trying to figure out why it wouldn't find the dongle.. never was able to.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

We (my computer guy and I) actually tried that. It wouldn't recognize any of the dongles for Flexi or Corel (I run CoCut). Spent about 3 hours trying to figure out why it wouldn't find the dongle.. never was able to.

How did y'all try to pass the dongles through and what type of dongles? Install the needed drivers etc?

 

[letterman7]

I have dongles for Flexi, CoCut and a third for a Summa cutter. We fired up the computer, went into VM then plugged in the dongles. The machine never even "saw" them.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Ok, I'm shooting in the dark here.

I'm only going by what you said in the above post.

Are they USB dongles or did you have to use an adapter to use USB etc, parallel dongle?

In general, if using USB type of dongles, did you just totally pass them through to the VM? In other words, only the VM sees it? The host does not see it at all, until you shut down the VM. If not, I would suggest making that so that the VM is the only one that sees it. Otherwise, the host would also have to be able to recognize and know what to do with that hardware for the VM to also be able to see it and use it (this is more if you installed hardware cards to get the ports to use the dongles (like for parallel dongles where most people don't have that port on computers out of the box anymore). Even if you had that type of card, I would still just pass everything through if that card too is legacy.

When you totally pass through the USB devices (still assuming that they are some type of USB dongle), did you also install the firmware (if needed) as well? I know when I was using dongled software, they had firmware that needed to be installed. Some thing here (and I would make sure that you keep a copy of said firmware in case there needs to be a fresh VM install later down the road (for whatever reason) and that firmware (for whatever reason) is no longer able to be had) I would assume.

You may have done all this and more, but I don't know based on your response. Just in case you have done the above already. The above would be the easiest method of doing it, if that didn't work, it's getting more into use IP configuring for the hardware and that is exceptionally tedious.

 

[letterman7]

They are USB dongles. I'm not sure what you mean by 'passing through' to the virtual machine; we had VM running when the dongles were plugged in. We tried going through the settings of the device manager and they weren't even listed. So.. right now it's a moot point. He was able to secure a Win7 compatible motherboard yesterday. He cloned my machine last night and will be working on fine tuning the new machine over the weekend.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Whatever VM software you are using (I use VirtualBox, but VMWare is a very good paid option as well and it is cross platform on all major desktop OSs (including Linux)) and look in the USB section of settings. For VirtualBox, it look like the attached (I don't have any USB plugged in devices that are the old school 1.1 (I don't have guest additions installed to get 2.0 and 3.1 support, but those are supported by virtualbox with guest additions, it's just 1.1 otherwise) as I don't need USB support for what I do anymore in the VMs).

The settings, was that on the host or the guest, if it was on the guest, it will never see them unless you pass it through. If it was on the host, drivers for those dongles would have to be installed first before the host would see it and thus make it available for the guest to use. When I was running embroidery software, in that list box on the attached picture, there would be an entry that would have HASP KEY that I would need to check to perpetually pass through to the guest VM. That's the type of entry that you would more then likely be looking for in those settings.

Passing through the USB dongles (in this case) is the act of making those devices only available to the guest VM for as long as it is running within any given session. The host OS will never see it until that VM is turned off/closed down. For instance, if you were to pass thru your main mouse and keyboard to be only seen by the VM, you would never be able to switch between the host and guest until you shutdown that VM, then the host OS will be able to use the mouse and keyboard. If you double up on hardware, passing thru is pretty cool as it is truly using one tower to run 2 (or more, at the height of my craze I was running 4 OSs at one time and one VM was within another VM) "computers" at the same time.