font ID help... & ethics question

iSign

New Member
First the ID question..
I recognize this font (in red) but I just can't remember the name. I thought I may even have it, but looked as long as I thought I should need to to spot it, so now I guess I don't have it.

Can anyone tell me the name?

celtic.jpg


...now the ethics question, if my client already paid some designer to do this with fonts they presumably owned... & now I just want to type out the same 4 words to occur next to the logo set straight out on a banner... would it be unethical for someone who owns the font to typeset those 4... uhhh, I mean 5 words & convert to outlines for me? It may end up as a free font, but if not I will offer the client to pay for it. He probably wouldn't think twice if I just set the banner type in Helvetica, but I thought it worth looking into using font first. I realize the d's are a little funky & may interfere with legibility, & I can only assume from this logo that there is no Caps (?) but I think I can make it work if I locate & aquire that font.

Thanks in advance for input on both questions.
 
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SoCalN8V

New Member
We used this font on a boat called "Celtic Song" and I remember that the font name started with a "G" and was something like "gaelic" but not exactly that name. Here's the link to our website that has a photo of "Celtic Song".

http://www.pacificsigncenter.com/Boat.shtml
I'm not at work now but I can post the name of the font on Monday.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
The font is Neue Hammer Unziale Two.

If the customer is supplying you the logo in digital form and you are otherwise unaware of any restrictions on its use, I don't really see where it is your job to play ethics cop. So I would acquire the font if not already owned and add the cost into the job.

Typesetting some text and supplying it in digital form to someone else, although done everyday, is clearly a breach of most manufacturer's software license agreements.
 

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iSign

New Member
Thank you both!!

for $21 I will take your advice & just get it & charge the client.

I don't doubt your understanding of EULA's for a minute Fred ...but just for my education, when you say... "Typesetting some text and supplying it in digital form to someone else, although done everyday, is clearly a breach of most manufacturer's software license agreements."

...I don't think you mean that would apply to my clients recieving a design I've been paid to do for them with fonts I own... so if I'm not around & they go to someone else to redo typesetting of a modification of their design in the same font & that person happens to own it... then it's still no foul right ...but if a third party goes to "that person who happens to own it" to set it up for the client, that is when it is "clearly a breach of most manufacturer's software license agreements" ...But then if that third party pays that second party... then it's legal again because the one who doesn't own it, is theoretically not making money off it?

...or are all of the above hypothetical scenarios "clearly" breaches?? (or maybe not so clear for some of us still)
 

SoCalN8V

New Member
Fred, it's close, but I don't think that's the font. Compare the lower case "e" and then look at the sample of that boat lettering I posted for Celtic Song.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
RLS said:
Fred, it's close, but I don't think that's the font. Compare the lower case "e" and then look at the sample of that boat lettering I posted for Celtic Song.

In looking at the logo and the font ID I made, I can see some minor stylistic differences and in this confusing world of clones and wannabee amateur type designers, the Neue Hammer Unziale Two may not be the exact font ... but as close as I could match.

The font used on Celtic Song is clearly different. Compare the lowercase "t".
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Doug, my comments on typesetting would be, for example, with respect to a third party to set the type for you with which you would make a sign.

Adobe and other EULA's all operate under the theory of licensing to a specific computer and a specific legal entity. They even require service bureau's to be licensed for any given font in order to have a right to output your documents. But in general this is the governing language from Adobe's EULA:

4.4 No Transfer. YOU MAY NOT RENT, LEASE, SELL, SUBLICENSE, ASSIGN OR TRANSFER YOUR RIGHTS IN THE SOFTWARE, OR AUTHORIZE ANY PORTION OF THE SOFTWARE TO BE COPIED ONTO ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL OR LEGAL ENTITY'S COMPUTER EXCEPT AS MAY BE PERMITTED HEREIN.

It is very confusing with respect to the emergence of PDF and font embedding as widely used file forms and technology. If I create a log for a client using any given font, the text portions of the logo are theoretically still covered under the license and can only be used by the owner of the license. So, in theory, what they are saying is that

1. We can use a font to create products like signs
2. We may not transfer the software (in this case the vectors left behind when we typeset and create outlines) to anyone not licensed to use the font. In essence, as I read it, you are violating the EULA if you supply digital files to a client unless you or he also purchases a license for the original font.

Adobe font EULA

Adobe Font Licensing FAQ
 

iSign

New Member
Fred wins again on font matching! :Big Laugh
(but thank you too Ronna... nice website & boat lettering jobs too)
I see the lower case "l" is also different as is the "g" when compared to the Neue Hammer Unziale alphabet on the purchase page at myfonts.com

I imagine Neue Hammer Unziale is the correct font. The variations may be partly because my logo artwork was created from me scanning & vectorizing a black & white printout & re-assigning colors to match another client provided hard copy for printing 23" logos to put on the bass drum for the 4th of July parade. (I re-typeset the smaller text, & will most likely redo the other text after getting this new font)

..oh yeah, on the font licensing issue & following the "letter of the law (of the letter)" ..I guess it looks like we are all crooks If we provide clients their logos on disc using vectorized fonts that the client doesn't own... I guess thats another good reason for just giving them cheap .jpg files! (job security too)
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Hmmmm Si ... looks like someone took Neue Hammer Unziale Two and renamed it American Uncial, then called it theirs.

Hey Doug !

You already have the font. It turns out to be Gerber's version of American Uncial included with Omega.


 

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iSign

New Member
woohoo!!
Thanks Si, & Fred.. glad I've trained myself not to reach for my wallet too quick. I thought I'd seen that font on my machine before :Big Laugh
 
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