• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Formed plastic letter install.

I'm getting ready to do my first outdoor installation of some Gemini formed plastic letters with combination stud mounts. I will be applying them to a monument made from landscaping brick that has been secured with construction adhesive. The weather here has been pretty cold averaging 20-45 degrees. I'm going to try to do the install when the weather warms up at least over freezing temp. I will be using silicone to secure the studs and I'm pretty sure I have a good grip on everything required to do the job efficiently and skillfully. However, if I need to temporarily secure the letters with something is there anything that will hold to brick in near freezing temps? The only thing I can think of would maybe be duct tape, but I'm not even sure about that. Any insight would be great.
 

MikePro

New Member
duct tape definitely works.
otherwise, could always mount your pattern to coroplast, hold it temporarily with duct tape, and drill a couple of small tapcons into a couple of spots that will be hidden by your final letter install, possibly even stud holes.

the coroplast helps keep your pattern flat over any abnormal surfaces such as brick/block.... and prevent it from being destroyed by the elements while you're already freezing your butt off and desperately hoping for nothing to throw you into a fit. tapcons will keep your pattern from moving during the rest of your drilling.
 

TimToad

Active Member
If you accurately drill your holes deep enough and not much larger than the studs, the length of your studs should create enough bind to hold your letters in place while the silicone sets. The trick is being as accurate as possible so your holes don't have a lot of gap for the letters to move around in and possibly slide out.

If in doubt, hold 'em in place with Gorilla tape.........
 

petepaz

New Member
If you accurately drill your holes deep enough and not much larger than the studs, the length of your studs should create enough bind to hold your letters in place while the silicone sets. The trick is being as accurate as possible so your holes don't have a lot of gap for the letters to move around in and possibly slide out.

If in doubt, hold 'em in place with Gorilla tape.........

+1 to above.
there is also a 3M hi tac tape that will work also if you can't get the gorilla tape but you shouldn't need it
 

Desert_Signs

New Member
If you accurately drill your holes deep enough and not much larger than the studs, the length of your studs should create enough bind to hold your letters in place while the silicone sets. The trick is being as accurate as possible so your holes don't have a lot of gap for the letters to move around in and possibly slide out.

If in doubt, hold 'em in place with Gorilla tape.........

Agreed.

If you don't go huge on the holes, you almost don't need silicone. Obviously, you'd never go without, but the letters aren't going to just fall off the wall.

if you want them to REALLY stick, use anchor epoxy. They'll NEVER come out. :omg: I had a customer request that once. I advised against it, but he was convinced if I didn't use it, kids would rip the letters out. Well, fast forward a couple years and a new guy moved in. They ended up replacing the whole block monument (small like 3x6) because they couldn't get any of the studs out and didn't want to just grind smooth.
 
Thanks for the pointers, guys. I will use a drill just slightly larger than the studs and hopefully they will bind without the use of tape to affix them. I will take some Gorilla tape with me just in case I end up needing it, though.
 

Moze

Active Member
They should be sending 10-24 studs with the letters. If so, you want a 3/16" bit. There's no reason to go any larger than that. As mentioned, in masonry, the holes are rarely drilled without some wandering, which is a good thing because it places tension on the studs. I don't think you'll need to tape the letters in place or anything.

If using silicone, I would recommend a neutral cure silicone since acetoxy-cure isn't recommended for masonry. Home Depot carries GE I and GE II silicone. I is acetoxy based, II is a neutral cure.

All of that said, silicone is a sealant, not an adhesive so adhering things isn't what it's meant for. THAT being said.....either one will work fine. I err on the side of caution and use what is recommended for masonry (neutral cure) just to cover my butt.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Also do not force plastic letters to much to fit in holes for studs if they are to tight. They will crack, but as Moze suggested with that size bit and the hammer drill should provide a nice secure fit with Silicone. Don't take the heel of your hand and wack it to hard.
 

signbrad

New Member
They should be sending 10-24 studs with the letters. If so, you want a 3/16" bit. There's no reason to go any larger than that. As mentioned, in masonry, the holes are rarely drilled without some wandering, which is a good thing because it places tension on the studs. I don't think you'll need to tape the letters in place or anything.
3/16-inch masonry bit is the standard for a 10-24 threaded stud. A number 10 stud is actually the same diameter as a 3/16 bit, but a masonry bit will always make the hole slightly oversize through the hammering action of the drill.
A carefully drilled pattern will circumvent most fit problems. In the event you do get a bad hole, Gorilla tape sticks well even in cold weather. I try to use a skinny strip of it to minimize glue residue. Another option is this: If a dry fit reveals a problem letter, perhaps one that tries to lean away at the top, instead of taping it to the wall while the adhesive sets up, wrap some tape around the loose-fitting stud before you coat it with glue. Not to cover the entire stud with tape, but just enough to increase its diameter a little at one spot in its length for a tighter fit in a sloppy hole. This can solve the problem sometimes without the need for a return trip to remove tape from the face of the letter.

I have installed many studded letters to interior walls with no silicone at all, just inserting the studs into the holes either with or without a wrap of masking tape at the base of the stud. In drywall, the holes can even be made with an awl, tapping it in, rather than drilling, eliminating the need for a vacuum cleanup. Of course, the presence of a wood or metal wall stud may require a drilled hole.

Though 3/16-inch is the go-to bit size for exterior letters, I also kept a single 1/4-inch masonry bit on hand in case I needed to oversize an occasional hole to avoid putting a letter in a bind. Gemini formed letters do not crack easily because of the type of plastic they use, but a flat-cut acrylic letter can easily crack in cold weather.

For new installers: it's usually a waste of time to squirt silicone into the holes. Half the time the wad simply gets pushed to the back of the hole by the stud without engulfing the stud. Rather, always coat the stud itself by inserting it into the nozzle of the silicone tube. You can control the amount of silicone deposited on the stud by squeezing the trigger as you withdraw it. The hole on the nozzle doesn't need to be large, just big enough to insert the stud all the way to the glue block. This method also coats the stud evenly, creating less mess.

Brad in Kansas City
 
Top