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I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
FYI on a nice site.
- Thread starter Jackpine
- Start date
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Yes and he like you are former merchant members who still benefit from exposure here. I see no reason for the OP to have pointed out Neato's site but had decided to let it slide. It's a shame when people find loopholes to avoid supporting Signs 101 for the benefits they receive.
Flame
New Member
I was unaware he was no longer a merchant member.
And I am no longer a merchant member simply because I didn't find it too beneficial with the format you set up. I do not put up ads, spam or go searching for work here to benefit myself, so not sure how you can say I still get exposure?
neato
New Member
Whoa! I really hope Fred that you're not accusing me of 'finding a loophole' for avoiding supporting signs101!???
I am not in the forum business and I'm in no way trying to take away members.
Geesh. I've been on here for years. I would never do something like that.
Sorry. I feel like I do support the boards even if I don't spend my advertising dollars here anymore. It wasn't a personal decision, I just got too busy and decided I didn't need to anymore.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
No one said you did ... but you are often given as a reference by others as a place to get MX templates. So you do get exposure and benefit.
Flame
New Member
Which I would've gotten whether I had been a sponsor of this site or not.
You don't give ME anything, but I've sent countless people to you for edge printing over the years. Even yesterday referred a customer from Vegas to go to your for hubcap label printing. Never asked for $ for it, it's just all part of being a community. We all help each other.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
No, I was referring to the OP, not you. He is welcome to try to make the case that he wasn't trying to give you some exposure with this thread. I see no other reason why he would have posted it.
My reference to not supporting Signs 101 was purely an observation of where one chooses to spend their advertising dollars. It has nothing to do with operating a forum. That's just business but you shouldn't expect that to go unnoticed when a thread like this gets posted.
neato
New Member
I guess I just felt like this statement was aimed at me, since Jackpine isn't avoiding being a merchant member. I don't think he was searching for any loopholes.
If I wanted to take this approach to get members, I would have posted something a year ago when I setup the forums. I don't do things like that.
Anyway, I'm sorry that this happened.
Rodi
New Member
Actually, Fred you are wrong. Every time some posts a website to others, it is potentially profitable for that site.
Think about it, someone asks for a font and I tell the URW Carosel, URW is benefiting, and they put nothing in. Meanwhile Neato or Flame or anyone else, who contributes to part of what Signs101 is gets a bone and your thinking it is taking away from it? I totally disagree.
Jackpine is a great guy and has helped many and his OP ought to be seen as a way for the community to be have a source of good design.
Think about it, someone asks for a font and I tell the URW Carosel, URW is benefiting, and they put nothing in. Meanwhile Neato or Flame or anyone else, who contributes to part of what Signs101 is gets a bone and your thinking it is taking away from it? I totally disagree.
Jackpine is a great guy and has helped many and his OP ought to be seen as a way for the community to be have a source of good design.
Jackpine
New Member
Rodi, thanks for the kind words.
I wasn't trying to sidestep any rules. I just "found" Neato's forum at his site and thought it would be nice to share another place for information about the trade. I am a member of other forums and even a moderator at one. Sorry Fred if I over stepped but I was intending no harm to anyone. I have spent a lot of my career in the trade helping others do and be better sign makers. I hope everyone knows how lucky we all are to find communities where we can get help. Again, I intended no harm.
I wasn't trying to sidestep any rules. I just "found" Neato's forum at his site and thought it would be nice to share another place for information about the trade. I am a member of other forums and even a moderator at one. Sorry Fred if I over stepped but I was intending no harm to anyone. I have spent a lot of my career in the trade helping others do and be better sign makers. I hope everyone knows how lucky we all are to find communities where we can get help. Again, I intended no harm.
ddarlak
Go Bills!
looks like the forum is about a year and a half old, a grand total of 95 members and a whopping 184 posts....
you couldn't have been more off the mark Fred...
hardly competition for your 101
just made yourself look bitter...... i commend you though on not deleting the entire thread....
you couldn't have been more off the mark Fred...
hardly competition for your 101
just made yourself look bitter...... i commend you though on not deleting the entire thread....
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
I accept that because I know you help a lot of people and your contributions here are respected as valuable.
The other side of the coin is that I spend the bulk of my time here at Signs 101 dealing with members and new registrants who view Signs 101 as a great place to promote themselves and their products without spending a dime or making so much as a helpful post.
It's not a perfect world where everything is black and white. Your desire to point out something worthwhile landed right in the middle of a conflict of interest and a gray area subject to different interpretations of what might really be going on.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Interesting that both you (with your history) and Phillip make the same incorrect interpretation of my post.
My problem with it was the Phillip made a decision to allow his merchant subscription here to expire and not renew it. After the expiration, he continued to make posts of a self promotional nature and left his signature setup as he had had it when he was a merchant here. As a courtesy, I allowed that to stand for a reasonable period until it was determined that he had decided not to continue as a paid merchant here. I asked him what his plans were and eventually his signature was modified to that of a regular member.
So when I saw this thread, I was both bothered by it and suspicious. I was not even aware that Phillip had a forum on his site ... so that aspect had nothing to do with it.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
No one here is promoting premium subscriptions. What you say is very true and I have every respect for the members here who truly become part of our community and do things to improve it and further its goals. It may surprise some to know that those contributions have resulted in Signs 101 being the highest traffic sign industry website on the internet. Our current Alexa.com traffic rank is 78,464 (global) and 27,099 (U.S.).
The result of that is that we have been able to attract both merchant subscribers and banner advertisers in sufficient numbers to continue to operate this site. We also appreciate the support of our premium subscribers and sincerely hope that the extra benefits that come with that subscription provide a great value to them.
At the same time, we have an obligation to provide a reasonable value to our merchants and advertisers by not permitting self promotion by any members who don't pay for the privilege. There is a very real line between supplying Phillip's site as a reference when a member inquires where to hire a designer (okay by us) and simply starting a thread to sing his praises. The latter is a common fraud we see happen over and over in various forms and such threads are usually called out and then deleted. I don't think this thread was such a fraud but, at the same time, I hope most reading this will see my side of the question.
Graphics2u
New Member
Fred,
I can't tell you how much I've benefitted from this site, whether it was a equipment problem or material question or getting in touch with Merchants. I have bought many clipart files and background fills from your own sites and will continue to do so. I have spoken to both Jackpine and Neato on the phone in the past, both of whom have been very helpful to me.
However I don't think anyone has the "incorrect interpretation" of your post.
It was apparent that the link was removed because you felt someone was using a "loophole" to promote themselves. How many other links are there in the thousands upon thousands of posts on this site to websites that someone feels is beneficial? But because they weren't former Merchant Members they aren't deleted?
In the end I know this is your site and you make the calls, and that's fine. But it seemed to me that your comments were a little off the normal even keel you try to keep here. Especially considering the longtime Members who were being refered to. Just my 2 cents.
I can't tell you how much I've benefitted from this site, whether it was a equipment problem or material question or getting in touch with Merchants. I have bought many clipart files and background fills from your own sites and will continue to do so. I have spoken to both Jackpine and Neato on the phone in the past, both of whom have been very helpful to me.
However I don't think anyone has the "incorrect interpretation" of your post.
It was apparent that the link was removed because you felt someone was using a "loophole" to promote themselves. How many other links are there in the thousands upon thousands of posts on this site to websites that someone feels is beneficial? But because they weren't former Merchant Members they aren't deleted?
In the end I know this is your site and you make the calls, and that's fine. But it seemed to me that your comments were a little off the normal even keel you try to keep here. Especially considering the longtime Members who were being refered to. Just my 2 cents.
