Gemini (Acrylic letters) Installation Tips and Tricks?

[AylmerSigns]

Good morning all,

I am to install my first Gemini (most probably Acrylic cut letters, or maybe metal letters - depending on the customer's final decision) lettering on a painted drywall.

The lettering will be at the entrance of his office, on a wall that is at a standard "view" height. We're talking approximately 6" letters. I may end-up mixing vinyl lettering for smaller lettering, to give it an extra dimension.

I was thinking of a stud installation, directly in the drywall. I read the brief installation instructions in the Gemini Book, but I wanted to know if you guys, the top notch of installation, had tips and tricks, that I may learn on here, instead than learning it the hard way? I'd be ordering a pattern with the stud locations, to ease the task...but is there anything else I should know? What tends to go wrong (or at least, when you began) with this type of installation?

Thanks a whole lot guys, as always, we extremely appreciate the help and dedication this community has!

 

[Billct2]

Stud mount is fine with letters tant size. Not many issues that aren't covered in Gemini's videos. I don't always like there patterns spacing, especially on smaller critical jobs. I'd use flat acrylic letters for the smaller copy, will look a lot better than vinyl. Those can be installed with mounting tape or dual lock.

 

[AylmerSigns]

Stud mount is fine with letters tant size. Not many issues that aren't covered in Gemini's videos. I don't always like there patterns spacing, especially on smaller critical jobs. I'd use flat acrylic letters for the smaller copy, will look a lot better than vinyl. Those can be installed with mounting tape or dual lock.

Thanks for the input. Would you order a mounting pattern for smaller fonts, or how would you go about to align them, if there was quite a few letters?

Also, I've ordered some "disk" installation letters in the past, But wasn't exactly sure how to properly align these, since the patterns they provide are a full pattern? Any tips on this type of installation (Which applies to flat two-way tape lettering also).

 

[Drip Dry]

Studs are the only way. Double sided tape will eventually fall off.

I always print a line drawing on paper before I order the letters.
It's usually a larger job, so it pays to bring the paper printout to the customer.
You get, as well as the customer, to see what it may look like. This is your chance to
make sure of size and that it fits in the intended space correctly. Also, this is the best way to
check for kerning, instead on the computer screen.

Once you get the letters from Gemini, check the pattern. They are almost always correct, but you
don't want to be drilling holes and find out the kerning is wrong.

Put the pattern up straight, and make sure it is laying flat on the wall. Use a lot of tape to keep it from moving while your drilling. It may be a freshly painted wall. Check the tape to make sure it doesn't pull paint when you remove it. You can use painters tape if you have a problem.
Drill the holes with a bit size as small as possible. I try to make it so that I have to almost force the studs into the holes. This way you don't need to use glue. If you end up with a couple of loose letters, you can use glue on them.
Use "Clear" Silicone. I use it from a little squeeze tube. It's just overkill from a caulking gun. ( and messy)

If you find a letter is not straight, you can open up one or 2 of the holes in order to straighten it out. You need glue on these.
Sometimes when your drilling, you'll hit a stud. Instead of trying to drill into it and causing the stud to go crooked, I either cut the stud shorter, or remove it entirely

Bring a little dust brush. After you remove the paper pattern, you can brush the dust off the wall. You also should bring a little hand held vacuum to clean up the carpet under the letters.

Some thoughts about Gemini letters.

Their letters have a glossy finish on them. They almost look like plastic. I only use them outside up on the building. When I do it inside, I use a letter that is painted a matte finish. I think it looks nicer. However, I have used Gemini indoors and it looks
fine.

 

[AylmerSigns]

Awesome!

Studs are the only way. Double sided tape will eventually fall off.

I always print a line drawing on paper before I order the letters.
It's usually a larger job, so it pays to bring the paper printout to the customer.
You get, as well as the customer, to see what it may look like. This is your chance to
make sure of size and that it fits in the intended space correctly. Also, this is the best way to
check for kerning, instead on the computer screen.

Once you get the letters from Gemini, check the pattern. They are almost always correct, but you
don't want to be drilling holes and find out the kerning is wrong.

Put the pattern up straight, and make sure it is laying flat on the wall. Use a lot of tape to keep it from moving while your drilling. It may be a freshly painted wall. Check the tape to make sure it doesn't pull paint when you remove it. You can use painters tape if you have a problem.
Drill the holes with a bit size as small as possible. I try to make it so that I have to almost force the studs into the holes. This way you don't need to use glue. If you end up with a couple of loose letters, you can use glue on them.
Use "Clear" Silicone. I use it from a little squeeze tube. It's just overkill from a caulking gun. ( and messy)

If you find a letter is not straight, you can open up one or 2 of the holes in order to straighten it out. You need glue on these.
Sometimes when your drilling, you'll hit a stud. Instead of trying to drill into it and causing the stud to go crooked, I either cut the stud shorter, or remove it entirely

Bring a little dust brush. After you remove the paper pattern, you can brush the dust off the wall. You also should bring a little hand held vacuum to clean up the carpet under the letters.

Some thoughts about Gemini letters.

Their letters have a glossy finish on them. They almost look like plastic. I only use them outside up on the building. When I do it inside, I use a letter that is painted a matte finish. I think it looks nicer. However, I have used Gemini indoors and it looks
fine.

All this is exactly what I was hoping for as an answer. Thank you so much, you just took off a few pounds of stress off my shoulders.

Won't having too much of a small hole cause the drywall to crack or "bump" up?

As for the clear silicon, I guess I can dip the stud in, when needed? Thank's for the tip of cutting or bypassing the stud that would end up in a stud. Never thought about that happening. How easily are the studs cut? Should I bring a smaller grinders, or plyers should do?

Thanks again, you can't imagine how helpful this is to us.

 

[Billct2]

Specify aluinum studs you can cut with a little bolt cutter. We'll often stick the stud in the tip of the silicone tube i
ntead of squirting it into the hole.

 

[visual800]

Do not waste time with studs on sheetrock, its just senseless. We use 3m double sided back tape for all tape installs.this is the same tape most ADA signs come with. This stuff will tear studs out of the wall before it comes looks.

Do not use that cheapa$$ white foam tape you see everywhere its a 50/50 chance it holds.

 

[Drip Dry]

If you choose to use double sided tape as Visual suggest, then consider how your going to mount them, You can't use a standard Gemini pattern because once the standard pattern is on the wall (all paper) how will you attach the letter to wall?

You need a spacing or tic pattern. This is a pattern that shows just the bottom of each letter. You line up each letter with the spacing letter and it's up to you to make sure the letter is straight. If you put the letter up crooked, you need to peal it off and straighten it out. When you peal it off, you lose holding strength.

A better way is to make a stencil. Cut the pattern on the plotter out of removable vinyl. Remove the letters from the pattern. Put that up on the wall. Now insert each letter. Once all the letters are up, remove the stencil.

I still prefer studs, but the stencil way will save some money on the way overpriced pattern from Gemini

 

[Pat Whatley]

Make or order your pattern. Cut the pattern so you one have a 1" strip of the bottom of the letters left, that's all you need to line your letters up. Tape it on the wall, add little strips of VHB tape to your lettering (6" letters won't take much at all), stick it on the wall, slip your pattern out, take the check to the bank.

Silicone is a mess, studs are overkill, VHB is simple and will last.

 

[Moze]

Studs are the only way. Double sided tape will eventually fall off.

Not being argumentative here, but...

Totally untrue. Studs are definitely not the only way. Studs are fine. Tape and silicone is fine. If you use the proper tape (along with silicone for backup), it will not fall off.

Drill the holes with a bit size as small as possible. I try to make it so that I have to almost force the studs into the holes. This way you don't need to use glue.

Better yet, drill the PROPER size hole. Stud mounted letters are going to come with either 8-32 studs or 10-24 studs. The vast majority of the time, they'll be 10-24 studs. For 8-32, you use a 1/8" bit. For 10-24 studs, you use a 3/16" bit.

On a stud mounted letter, always use silicone. As Bill mentioned, cut the tip of your silicone tube just large enough to fit the stud in. Thread the stud into the letter, stick the stud into the tube, squeeze the tube as you pull the stud out. Push the studs into the holes you drilled and the silicone will accumulate around the base of the stud and once cured, anchor the letter to the wall.

Tip: Once your pattern is up, always scan your wall with a good stud finder. I use this one. Be alert to electrical outlets below the sign. Scan above them to see if conduit is present. If there is and it's going to significantly mess with a stud-mounted letter, you might consider moving the pattern so you miss the conduit. If moving the pattern isn't an option, cut your studs to about 3/4" in length and drill through the drywall only.

If you pick up a metal stud in the wall, pre-drill your hole(s) with a smaller 1/8" bit (assuming you're using 10-24 studs). Then finish with a 7/32" bit. If you use a 3/16" the threaded stud can catch on the hole in the metal stud and it can hang up to the point where it to go in further.....and you won't be able to get it out.

Won't having too much of a small hole cause the drywall to crack or "bump" up?

Don't drill an undersized hole. Drill the proper size hole. Sizes are noted above.

Specify aluinum studs you can cut with a little bolt cutter. We'll often stick the stud in the tip of the silicone tube i
ntead of squirting it into the hole.

This.

I use these.

If you choose to use double sided tape as Visual suggest, then consider how your going to mount them, You can't use a standard Gemini pattern Yes, you can... because once the standard pattern is on the wall (all paper) how will you attach the letter to wall? Easy. You take something with a pinpoint (I use a very sharp brad stuck through a small piece of wood) and you make a tiny pinpoint at two or three of the outer sharp points of the letters. When you take your pattern down, you have reference points for every letter. When the letters are up, they cover the pinpoints (check pattern outline in reference to letter size ahead of time). Yes, letters without sharp points (letter 'o' for example) is a little tougher, but that's where a good eye comes in.

You need a spacing or tic pattern. This is a pattern that shows just the bottom of each letter. You line up each letter with the spacing letter and it's up to you to make sure the letter is straight. If you put the letter up crooked, you need to peal it off and straighten it out. When you peal it off, you lose holding strength.

This is what I call the Russian Roulette method of installing letters. For some it works, but I've seen too many do this and get crooked letters. Then you have to remove the letter and typically remove the tape and apply new tape. Is it worth the potential time savings? I don't think so. There are better ways - why risk it? Do it once, do it right.

A better way is to make a stencil. Cut the pattern on the plotter out of removable vinyl. Remove the letters from the pattern. Put that up on the wall. Now insert each letter. Once all the letters are up, remove the stencil.

This isn't worth the trouble in my opinion. The time it takes to create the pattern, cut it, weed it, apply it to the wall, hope it doesn't remove paint when being removed, etc. is more than I would want to worry about.

I still prefer studs, but the stencil way will save some money on the way overpriced pattern from Gemini

I would think a persons time and materials (not to mention avoiding the risk of potentially damaging a wall) are worth the small amount Gemini charges for a pattern.

Again, I'm not being argumentative, but I think some of your advice is a little off base.

 

[Biker Scout]

There are tapes out there that will pull the drywall off if you try to remove them. BronTapes.com makes a product called Killer Red. Look into it. It's used everywhere.

But as for the stencil thing.... I aways make my own out of cheap removable vinyl. I make it off the actual file I used to show the client the proof. So I know it's exactly right and how the customer saw it. Plus that's pretty easy to get up straight, stand back and take an over all look right before the letters actually go on.

 

[visual800]

We only use gemini templates for exterior stud installs, but on a job like the OP is talking about we make our own as Pat mentioned. We usually make paper pattern and hit the bottom of the letters about 1/4" up and thats our guide. Dont have to pay the Gemini upcharge for a pattern

We had a large install for a university using 1/2" flat cut letters approx 4" tall, about 20 sets of them. The architect called for stud mount on sheetrock, we did them all in 3M tape in record time. First off stud mount was uncalled for on this application, it would have been messy and time consuming. Putting tape of the backs got us in and out in record time on this job. it was subbed out to us and they allowed so many hours for install and we did it in half the time.

Common sense and know how will get you thru the day not instructions from higher ups that have not a clue