Getting nowhere in the profiling world

[craigwojo]

I’m changing strategies because I’ve had no success creating ICC profiles. My setup is an Epson S80600 printer with nine colors plus a cleaner cartridge. I’m using Onyx Go Plus (version 25 subscription), and my only goal is to create reliable media profiles. That’s it. Unfortunately, I’ve been stuck on every attempt and going nowhere.


Budget matters. I can spend up to $1,500 total. I already bought an Epson SD-10 spectrophotometer (and still own it), but I’m running into issues using it with Onyx, even after contacting support on both ends. I did purchase an X-Rite I1 Pro 2 set-up and the lamp (which I believe was not working correctly), and returned them. Also, X-Rite will not be supporting it anymore.

Given my printer and software, what spectrophotometer and profiling solution do you recommend so I can successfully make my own profiles? Any help would be appreciated!

 

[P Wagner]

i1 Pro3 / Plus spectrophotometer and i1Profiler

 

[Goatshaver]

i1 Pro3 / Plus spectrophotometer and i1Profiler

Don't mean to hijack this but I'm kind of in the same boat. I wanted to create my own profiles as well but really don't want to drop $3800 on a new i1 Pro bundle. Is it possible to use a working Pro 2 even if they aren't supporting it?
Feel like X-Rite has a headlock on this business as there are zero other options for making color profiles that I'm aware of.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I too have the i1Pro3, also have the i1io table. They work great. If you have the budget, the i1io table is so worth it!! But definietly not cheap!

There are a couple other brands, like Barbieri, but Xrite seems to be the main one.

 

[milchad]

Not sure if this would help at all, but I have the same printer but use the latest Caldera RIP software. We were able to use profiles found on the 3M website that were +- 2 delta when comparing to the Pantone book. Maybe there is an off the shelf Onyx profile that works too?

 

[Humble PM]

Don't mean to hijack this but I'm kind of in the same boat. I wanted to create my own profiles as well but really don't want to drop $3800 on a new i1 Pro bundle. Is it possible to use a working Pro 2 even if they aren't supporting it?
Feel like X-Rite has a headlock on this business as there are zero other options for making color profiles that I'm aware of.

I use one all the time. Just running the older profiler software (mac).

 

[zillion29]

We went through the entire ONYX profiling training for our Arizona and our HP560. When we realized how many colors were and would always be out of gamut we kind of just gave up. We were like um . . . you want us to spend hours upon hours printing on all this different media only to discover that we're never going to be able to get 430C exactly right? Get bent! LOL

 

[LizKeenan]

I learned long ago that Spectophenometers are never actually worth the time, and also they rarely even work.

There should be some kind of 3m or material profile for your printer that exists. Use that and make sure it’s at a high pass count to see what it can really do (this may depend on material) also check your recommended head height.

I’ve found printing a large Pantone or often used swatches and making a GRACol ICC profiled file in Illustrator saving it as an EPS or PDF and sending it through the RIP to my printer to see how they hit off the bat. Based on those I generally move up or down the values. You have to do it on each different material.

It’s not a true calibration, but with a few color tests you generally get close enough. Updating your RIP will also probably help with hitting more Pantones.

 

[cornholio]

If you have the profiling functionality in your Onyx version, you can buy the cheapest iOne version. The iOne device will be the same, just with less (xrite) software functionality. (For example iOne photo vs. iOne publish)
In the past, we were able to buy a iOne without any software for around 1000.- from our Rip developer.
Rips often contain all the software needed to run a spectro.
On the other hand, you need the iProfiler in order to create profiles for Roland Versaworks for example.

Some comments just show the frustration of missing color management basics...
There are always some Pantones you can't achieve with the quite restricted CMYK color space. With or without custom profiles.
With extra colors like orange green blue, you can hit a lot more of these colors.
To achieve a neutral gray axis, it's important to have a machine specific profile.

 

[netsol]

If you have the profiling functionality in your Onyx version, you can buy the cheapest iOne version. The iOne device will be the same, just with less (xrite) software functionality. (For example iOne photo vs. iOne publish)
In the past, we were able to buy a iOne without any software for around 1000.- from our Rip developer.
Rips often contain all the software needed to run a spectro.
On the other hand, you need the iProfiler in order to create profiles for Roland Versaworks for example.

Some comments just show the frustration of missing color management basics...
There are always some Pantones you can't achieve with the quite restricted CMYK color space. With or without custom profiles.
With extra colors like orange green blue, you can hit a lot more of these colors.
To achieve a neutral gray axis, it's important to have a machine specific profile

We went through the entire ONYX profiling training for our Arizona and our HP560. When we realized how many colors were and would always be out of gamut we kind of just gave up. We were like um . . . you want us to spend hours upon hours printing on all this different media only to discover that we're never going to be able to get 430C exactly right? Get bent! LOL

We went through the entire ONYX profiling training for our Arizona and our HP560. When we realized how many colors were and would always be out of gamut we kind of just gave up. We were like um . . . you want us to spend hours upon hours printing on all this different media only to discover that we're never going to be able to get 430C exactly right

We went through the entire ONYX profiling training for our Arizona and our HP560. When we realized how many colors were and would always be out of gamut we kind of just gave up. We were like um . . . you want us to spend hours upon hours printing on all this different media only to discover that we're never going to be able to get 430C exactly right? Get bent! LOL

so it is the fault of xrite that you now understand the color space limitations of your printer? I would have thought that was a good thing, not cause to abandon the whole process

 

[netsol]

you know, when they say 3 billion colors per pixel, that doesn't mean you can hit them all.
if we could, pantone & xrite would have gone out of business long ago

 

[Humble PM]

You spend an hour or two profiling a media to know what you're going to be getting, then hundreds or thousands of feet of material getting predictable results.

That's peanuts in the grand scheme of things, and helps you temper the client's expectations. A bit like an athlete training real hard, but going nutrition, nah Get bent! LOL

 

[unmateria]

I learned long ago that Spectophenometers are never actually worth the time, and also they rarely even work.

There should be some kind of 3m or material profile for your printer that exists. Use that and make sure it’s at a high pass count to see what it can really do (this may depend on material) also check your recommended head height.

I’ve found printing a large Pantone or often used swatches and making a GRACol ICC profiled file in Illustrator saving it as an EPS or PDF and sending it through the RIP to my printer to see how they hit off the bat. Based on those I generally move up or down the values. You have to do it on each different material.

It’s not a true calibration, but with a few color tests you generally get close enough. Updating your RIP will also probably help with hitting more Pantones.

Thats like saying that cars are not worthy because if give one to a monkey, they drive better with a babywalker. Serious, spectros are a tool. Essential tool. Just that the learning curve is high. If u dont know how to use it (i dont know anybody that use it correctly), is a stupid tool of course. But when u máster it and u know ur machines, u can do many things u simply cant do visually. 60-90min to calibrate one media and build a perfect profile and u have years of click and print without worries.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

Don't mean to hijack this but I'm kind of in the same boat. I wanted to create my own profiles as well but really don't want to drop $3800 on a new i1 Pro bundle. Is it possible to use a working Pro 2 even if they aren't supporting it?
Feel like X-Rite has a headlock on this business as there are zero other options for making color profiles that I'm aware of.

Um there are 4 other options, XRite is one of the most reliable and lowest cost.

To return to the thread, if you are not willing to invest now, your attempts are futile. Color Management is a consistent and on going thing, not one and done.

 

[unmateria]

Don't mean to hijack this but I'm kind of in the same boat. I wanted to create my own profiles as well but really don't want to drop $3800 on a new i1 Pro bundle. Is it possible to use a working Pro 2 even if they aren't supporting it?
Feel like X-Rite has a headlock on this business as there are zero other options for making color profiles that I'm aware of.

Then buy an used i1/eyeone/es1000 and use argyll cms (https://www.argyllcms.com/downloadwin.html)

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

All of the comments here miss the fact of color management. Color management is not only about accuracy, it is about efficiency, consistency, and speed. When proper color management is deployed, you can run your machines faster with more consistency and higher quality.

Point in Case, we switched from Onyx/Xrite ICC to PrintFactory and deployed their additional color management features. Our printers are now more accurate, vibrant, and use 40% less ink while running at faster speeds (Vanguard 4pass over 6pass, Canon Colorado Production over High Quality).

Yes color management is time consuming and initially expensive, but, when managed and instituted properly it will save you money and time (more expensive than money).

Don't give up on your color management, take small steps and grow in to the full process.

 

[Goatshaver]

All of the comments here miss the fact of color management. Color management is not only about accuracy, it is about efficiency, consistency, and speed. When proper color management is deployed, you can run your machines faster with more consistency and higher quality.

Point in Case, we switched from Onyx/Xrite ICC to PrintFactory and deployed their additional color management features. Our printers are now more accurate, vibrant, and use 40% less ink while running at faster speeds (Vanguard 4pass over 6pass, Canon Colorado Production over High Quality).

Yes color management is time consuming and initially expensive, but, when managed and instituted properly it will save you money and time (more expensive than money).

Don't give up on your color management, take small steps and grow in to the full process.

My goal is consistency and efficiency mainly. My customers aren't really bothered by color matching and overall better prints. I'm more concerned with the output than they are. Also I just wanted to bring my UV printer into my Onyx workflow and the only way to do that is making ICC profiles.

 

[netsol]

Thats like saying that cars are not worthy because if give one to a monkey, they drive better with a babywalker. Serious, spectros are a tool. Essential tool. Just that the learning curve is high. If u dont know how to use it (i dont know anybody that use it correctly), is a stupid tool of course. But when u máster it and u know ur machines, u can do many things u simply cant do visually. 60-90min to calibrate one media and build a perfect profile and u have years of click and print withou

it is always an annoya

All of the comments here miss the fact of color management. Color management is not only about accuracy, it is about efficiency, consistency, and speed. When proper color management is deployed, you can run your machines faster with more consistency and higher quality.

Point in Case, we switched from Onyx/Xrite ICC to PrintFactory and deployed their additional color management features. Our printers are now more accurate, vibrant, and use 40% less ink while running at faster speeds (Vanguard 4pass over 6pass, Canon Colorado Production over High Quality).

Yes color management is time consuming and initially expensive, but, when managed and instituted properly it will save you money and time (more expensive than money).

Don't give up on your color management, take small steps and grow in to the full process.

and if a client asks for a reprint in 2 years it will be indentical