I've done what I feel like is a lot of research because I hate asking a question that is answered by a simple google search so hopefully I've learned enough where I'm not wasting anyone's time. Hopefully I don't ramble too much lol and hopefully this will help someone else because I had to do a lot of bouncing around between forums, articles, and videos to piece this info together.
I've gone back and forth several times throughout my research between an eco solvent bn20a and latex hp 115. Seems to be a common question...Latex vs eco solvent. I've definitely narrowed my questions down from when I began.
What do I want to be doing? - I only have experience with a cricut air explore 2. I've cut vinyl decals for various projects and just recently gotten into print and cut stickers.
The main thing I dislike about my current method is the dye ink definitely doesn't last as long as I'd like it to. So, to answer my own question.....I want a machine that will do vinyl decals and print stickers. I'm pretty comfortable with decals and once I get nice and comfortable with stickers, I will consider adding in shirt transfers and then looking into other things that I might be able to do once I'm comfortable with that.
-short version....I want something for decals, stickers, and probably shirt transfers.
I would like to have myself a legitimate long term side hustle, but do NOT have any intention on making it a full time business. I will likely stick to selling online mostly as well as to some family/friends/acquaintances. I understand the bn20a is a slow machine and I'm fine with that. If I ever reach a point where it's too slow, I expect I'll be at a point where I'll be wanting and more able to upgrade.
-short version...print/cut speed is not on my list of deciding factors
Output size - I'm aware that the hp115 is a larger format. BN20a - 20" (18.9" printable area if I remember correctly) is plenty. The 54" that the hp115 provides is just a bonus that I don't have a need for and therefore size is not a deciding factor. If I were to reach a point where size becomes a deciding factor, I should be at a point where I'll be better able and willing to upgrade.
-short version...output size is not a factor
Deciding factors - Initial cost, operating cost, maintenance and maintenance cost, space, product longevity, and accuracy are all things I am considering.
Initial cost- BN20a - $5295(base) + $89 *4 = $356 (ink) for a total of $5651 or there is a package deal right now on swingdesign that makes it $5450.
- hp115 with cutter - $11099(printer plus cutter) + $756 (ink set) = $12755
I'm not a business of any kind at this point and I'm paying for as much as I can out with what I've been able to save up from my normal little retail job. I'm close to being able to buy the BN20a without financing. This is an important consideration for anyone. Is going into debt worth it for what may be little more than a hobby or hopefully a part time little business? I live by the "hope for the best, expect the worst" philosophy. With that being said, if I were to decide on financing and had to pay it off completely out of pocket....it isn't the end of the world, just would suck for awhile. -short version...BN20a is the more valid option for my situation based solely on price
Operating cost- I couldn't find much for detailed operating costs, but sounds like the the hp 115 is more efficient on ink. Cost per ml is less for the latex. eco-sol max2 $89 for 220ml =.41/ml vs hp 821 @ 108 for 400ml = .27/ml. However, 4 cartridges vs 7 cartridges and I'm not sure what the optimizer does. If the optimizer runs in conjunction with the color, it seems like that would increase the cost/ml and if that's the case, by how much? I saw mentioned somewhere at least once, but I think a couple of times that the latex is more efficient on ink used, but no idea if it's such a small difference that it doesn't matter or if the difference is large enough to count for something.
I also saw mentioned that the print head of the roland is far more expensive to replace than on the hp, but what I couldn't find was how frequently either one has to be replaced on average. If the hp head needs to be replaced 10x more frequently than roland print head, then that def cuts into the cost difference. I'm guessing there isn't a large difference in the cost or frequency when it comes to new blades, but please correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't research it.
Power consumption - roland 90w operating 5.5w sleep
- HP printer 2.2kw printing 70w ready <2.5w sleep and requires a 220v outlet that I would need to have installed. the cutter is 31w working mode. This makes me wonder if the hp combo is so much faster that it completely offsets the difference in power use?
-short version...the Roland running on 110 is a plus, but doesn't completely rule out the hp. The cost of ink will matter in the long run, but since I still have some unanswered questions about it, I'm not going to let it have an influence in my decision
Maintenance - The hp doesn't need to have power almost constantly like the roland does. The roland has to run it's maintenance cycle regularly resulting in more ink being wasted (please correct me if I misunderstood this). I wonder how much ink gets wasted in this manner? Since I'll likely not be printing more than once or twice a week at least in the near future, it sounds like the hp would be a slightly better option for me, but I rarely loose power and don't travel far so it's not really a concern to me that the roland has to have continuous power.
-short version...the hp staying unplugged when not in use for several days at a time is nice, but does it really matter enough to sway a decision?
Space- There is a huge footprint difference. roland is one machine that takes up approx 40"x23" of space. The hp is 2 machines that each take up significantly more. The printer is 91"x33" and the cutter is 70"x28". I have a small spare bedroom that I use as my work area. I can probably shift, stack, and shelf enough to make the 2 hp machines fit my area, but it would def be a pain to do and wouldn't allow me much room to move around for working things after they're cut.
-short version...the clear choice in this area for my situation is the roland, but I could make the hp work
Finished product - The latex will last longer under any circumstance. Seems like each individual person has their own opinion as to how long each will last under any particular condition so I'm unable to put down anything remotely concrete, but would love to have something more concrete to go on. If I can get some agreed upon rough time frames from the community, I'll edit them into this. The only things that people seem to agree on is that latex lasts longer (more scratch and uv resistant) and that you really can't take what the manufacturer's list as real world numbers.
It would help me to know how long I can expect each one to last under the following conditions and assuming the same quality material. Keeping in mind that lowest cost material vs highest cost material will make a difference, to save arguments, lets assume something middle of the road giving something more like an average real world lifespan -
laminated and unlaminated indoors rarely touched and same for outdoors; laminated and unlaminated on something like a mug or water bottle; laminated and unlaminated, indoors and outdoors, in a busy area such as a door or toolbox receiving 50% of the days sun indoors and a car window or bumper receiving 75% of the days sun outdoors.
This is not a laminated vs unlaminated question....it is a lifespan question. The laminated vs unlaminated information I could find is laminated always lasts longer.
I saw a couple a couple of videos that did some scratch tests, but can't remember specifically which ones. If I wasn't already so overwhelmed, I'd go back and at least give them recognition. One was a scratch test on stickers that were printed and sat around for awhile. The latex was far superior, but I took it with a grain of salt because it wasn't a true scratch test, but rather what happens when you use rubbing alcohol on them. The latex stayed perfect and the eco solvent rubbed off. While interesting, I'm not real concerned about how they hold up to rubbing alcohol. The other tests I saw were as they were coming out of the machines. The latex was dry and didn't scratch. The eco solvent scratched easily like it wasn't quite dry. I would really like to know how easily the eco solvent scratches after it's sat around for a few hours and for a day or two.
-short version...Latex is more uv & scratch resistant. However, I'm not sure by how much. Would be cool if I could get some feedback on the listed lifespan questions.
Print quality- the roland is 1440dpi and the hp is 1200x1200 making the roland slightly better resolution, but one person's opinion was that it's only noticeable when compared side by side. I was unable to find any opinions for cut accuracy/quality so I have to assume it's similar, but would love to be corrected if that is wrong.
-short version...roland is better according to specs, but it's not enough to sway a decision
Ventilation-Neither require ventilation, but the roland does still produce some sort of fumes. Will that be an issue in a small enclosed area? If so, Would a door being open suffice to negate any possible issue?
-short version...it's only a few sentences for a change, just read it
Some other stuff I had difficulty finding out-
-Is the cut accuracy similar assuming same or same quality media?
-How does the software compare? (Does one have far fewer or better options than the other or is one far more difficult to use than the other)
My dilemma is this.....I was leaning toward the roland bn20a to begin with. After typing all this out, it helped me to organize my brain a bit so things don't seem quite so overwhelming and I'm still leaning toward the roland....BUT, is that really what's right for my situation? It's a lot of money for someone who doesn't even get 40 hours a week, but it's more reasonable than the latex. I keep asking myself if I'm placing too much weight on the cost.
I think that about covers it....so much for keeping it reasonably short, but at least I added some short summaries to each section. Now lets see if I can do a tldr version for the entire thing.
****TLDR****- both are expensive AF and spending money always makes my butthole pucker, but neither is unobtainable. This is a new venture for me and I don't make "regular" sales. I hope (cautiously expect) to make more, but have no intentions to be full time. I don't want to start by selling total garbage, but don't need the best of the best. I am pretty limited on space. The roland is 110v, hp is 220v. Latex is is more durable, but not sure by just how much or if it's really a need in my situation. I could potentially make sure I'm very clear on life expectancy of product (which should be done with any product) and go to latex if I were to increase sales enough to justify it. It seems like the roland will be a better fit for me at this point, but I'm questioning if I'm placing too much weight on the cost difference because, well, that's just what I do sometimes.
I really hope at the very least I made this informative to 1 or 2 people in a similar situation as me, thus providing a reasonable contribution to the community.
I've gone back and forth several times throughout my research between an eco solvent bn20a and latex hp 115. Seems to be a common question...Latex vs eco solvent. I've definitely narrowed my questions down from when I began.
What do I want to be doing? - I only have experience with a cricut air explore 2. I've cut vinyl decals for various projects and just recently gotten into print and cut stickers.
The main thing I dislike about my current method is the dye ink definitely doesn't last as long as I'd like it to. So, to answer my own question.....I want a machine that will do vinyl decals and print stickers. I'm pretty comfortable with decals and once I get nice and comfortable with stickers, I will consider adding in shirt transfers and then looking into other things that I might be able to do once I'm comfortable with that.
-short version....I want something for decals, stickers, and probably shirt transfers.
I would like to have myself a legitimate long term side hustle, but do NOT have any intention on making it a full time business. I will likely stick to selling online mostly as well as to some family/friends/acquaintances. I understand the bn20a is a slow machine and I'm fine with that. If I ever reach a point where it's too slow, I expect I'll be at a point where I'll be wanting and more able to upgrade.
-short version...print/cut speed is not on my list of deciding factors
Output size - I'm aware that the hp115 is a larger format. BN20a - 20" (18.9" printable area if I remember correctly) is plenty. The 54" that the hp115 provides is just a bonus that I don't have a need for and therefore size is not a deciding factor. If I were to reach a point where size becomes a deciding factor, I should be at a point where I'll be better able and willing to upgrade.
-short version...output size is not a factor
Deciding factors - Initial cost, operating cost, maintenance and maintenance cost, space, product longevity, and accuracy are all things I am considering.
Initial cost- BN20a - $5295(base) + $89 *4 = $356 (ink) for a total of $5651 or there is a package deal right now on swingdesign that makes it $5450.
- hp115 with cutter - $11099(printer plus cutter) + $756 (ink set) = $12755
I'm not a business of any kind at this point and I'm paying for as much as I can out with what I've been able to save up from my normal little retail job. I'm close to being able to buy the BN20a without financing. This is an important consideration for anyone. Is going into debt worth it for what may be little more than a hobby or hopefully a part time little business? I live by the "hope for the best, expect the worst" philosophy. With that being said, if I were to decide on financing and had to pay it off completely out of pocket....it isn't the end of the world, just would suck for awhile. -short version...BN20a is the more valid option for my situation based solely on price
Operating cost- I couldn't find much for detailed operating costs, but sounds like the the hp 115 is more efficient on ink. Cost per ml is less for the latex. eco-sol max2 $89 for 220ml =.41/ml vs hp 821 @ 108 for 400ml = .27/ml. However, 4 cartridges vs 7 cartridges and I'm not sure what the optimizer does. If the optimizer runs in conjunction with the color, it seems like that would increase the cost/ml and if that's the case, by how much? I saw mentioned somewhere at least once, but I think a couple of times that the latex is more efficient on ink used, but no idea if it's such a small difference that it doesn't matter or if the difference is large enough to count for something.
I also saw mentioned that the print head of the roland is far more expensive to replace than on the hp, but what I couldn't find was how frequently either one has to be replaced on average. If the hp head needs to be replaced 10x more frequently than roland print head, then that def cuts into the cost difference. I'm guessing there isn't a large difference in the cost or frequency when it comes to new blades, but please correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't research it.
Power consumption - roland 90w operating 5.5w sleep
- HP printer 2.2kw printing 70w ready <2.5w sleep and requires a 220v outlet that I would need to have installed. the cutter is 31w working mode. This makes me wonder if the hp combo is so much faster that it completely offsets the difference in power use?
-short version...the Roland running on 110 is a plus, but doesn't completely rule out the hp. The cost of ink will matter in the long run, but since I still have some unanswered questions about it, I'm not going to let it have an influence in my decision
Maintenance - The hp doesn't need to have power almost constantly like the roland does. The roland has to run it's maintenance cycle regularly resulting in more ink being wasted (please correct me if I misunderstood this). I wonder how much ink gets wasted in this manner? Since I'll likely not be printing more than once or twice a week at least in the near future, it sounds like the hp would be a slightly better option for me, but I rarely loose power and don't travel far so it's not really a concern to me that the roland has to have continuous power.
-short version...the hp staying unplugged when not in use for several days at a time is nice, but does it really matter enough to sway a decision?
Space- There is a huge footprint difference. roland is one machine that takes up approx 40"x23" of space. The hp is 2 machines that each take up significantly more. The printer is 91"x33" and the cutter is 70"x28". I have a small spare bedroom that I use as my work area. I can probably shift, stack, and shelf enough to make the 2 hp machines fit my area, but it would def be a pain to do and wouldn't allow me much room to move around for working things after they're cut.
-short version...the clear choice in this area for my situation is the roland, but I could make the hp work
Finished product - The latex will last longer under any circumstance. Seems like each individual person has their own opinion as to how long each will last under any particular condition so I'm unable to put down anything remotely concrete, but would love to have something more concrete to go on. If I can get some agreed upon rough time frames from the community, I'll edit them into this. The only things that people seem to agree on is that latex lasts longer (more scratch and uv resistant) and that you really can't take what the manufacturer's list as real world numbers.
It would help me to know how long I can expect each one to last under the following conditions and assuming the same quality material. Keeping in mind that lowest cost material vs highest cost material will make a difference, to save arguments, lets assume something middle of the road giving something more like an average real world lifespan -
laminated and unlaminated indoors rarely touched and same for outdoors; laminated and unlaminated on something like a mug or water bottle; laminated and unlaminated, indoors and outdoors, in a busy area such as a door or toolbox receiving 50% of the days sun indoors and a car window or bumper receiving 75% of the days sun outdoors.
This is not a laminated vs unlaminated question....it is a lifespan question. The laminated vs unlaminated information I could find is laminated always lasts longer.
I saw a couple a couple of videos that did some scratch tests, but can't remember specifically which ones. If I wasn't already so overwhelmed, I'd go back and at least give them recognition. One was a scratch test on stickers that were printed and sat around for awhile. The latex was far superior, but I took it with a grain of salt because it wasn't a true scratch test, but rather what happens when you use rubbing alcohol on them. The latex stayed perfect and the eco solvent rubbed off. While interesting, I'm not real concerned about how they hold up to rubbing alcohol. The other tests I saw were as they were coming out of the machines. The latex was dry and didn't scratch. The eco solvent scratched easily like it wasn't quite dry. I would really like to know how easily the eco solvent scratches after it's sat around for a few hours and for a day or two.
-short version...Latex is more uv & scratch resistant. However, I'm not sure by how much. Would be cool if I could get some feedback on the listed lifespan questions.
Print quality- the roland is 1440dpi and the hp is 1200x1200 making the roland slightly better resolution, but one person's opinion was that it's only noticeable when compared side by side. I was unable to find any opinions for cut accuracy/quality so I have to assume it's similar, but would love to be corrected if that is wrong.
-short version...roland is better according to specs, but it's not enough to sway a decision
Ventilation-Neither require ventilation, but the roland does still produce some sort of fumes. Will that be an issue in a small enclosed area? If so, Would a door being open suffice to negate any possible issue?
-short version...it's only a few sentences for a change, just read it
Some other stuff I had difficulty finding out-
-Is the cut accuracy similar assuming same or same quality media?
-How does the software compare? (Does one have far fewer or better options than the other or is one far more difficult to use than the other)
My dilemma is this.....I was leaning toward the roland bn20a to begin with. After typing all this out, it helped me to organize my brain a bit so things don't seem quite so overwhelming and I'm still leaning toward the roland....BUT, is that really what's right for my situation? It's a lot of money for someone who doesn't even get 40 hours a week, but it's more reasonable than the latex. I keep asking myself if I'm placing too much weight on the cost.
I think that about covers it....so much for keeping it reasonably short, but at least I added some short summaries to each section. Now lets see if I can do a tldr version for the entire thing.
****TLDR****- both are expensive AF and spending money always makes my butthole pucker, but neither is unobtainable. This is a new venture for me and I don't make "regular" sales. I hope (cautiously expect) to make more, but have no intentions to be full time. I don't want to start by selling total garbage, but don't need the best of the best. I am pretty limited on space. The roland is 110v, hp is 220v. Latex is is more durable, but not sure by just how much or if it's really a need in my situation. I could potentially make sure I'm very clear on life expectancy of product (which should be done with any product) and go to latex if I were to increase sales enough to justify it. It seems like the roland will be a better fit for me at this point, but I'm questioning if I'm placing too much weight on the cost difference because, well, that's just what I do sometimes.
I really hope at the very least I made this informative to 1 or 2 people in a similar situation as me, thus providing a reasonable contribution to the community.
