Need Help Help with resolution

[design1111]

Hi all, hoping you can help sort out an issue that I had with a recent bus wrap.

I am a graphic designer and did a wrap with a new shop that I've never used before. His requested file specs were 1:20 scale flattened @ 600dpi, and I was concerned that the final outcome @ 30dpi would look horrendous. He was unable to explain any further than "that's how the software works" and couldn't do a test print so I re-did the graphic as a fully vector graphic to ensure that it was scalable without coming out pixelated.

Well, come to find out he didn't scale the raster effects when he blew it up, so those were all at 30dpi and look horrible, so now I have a bus that has pixelated blurs everywhere.

Is there something I'm missing? Is it really "industry standard" to require 1:20 scale 600dpi flattened images for vehicle wraps? I swear I have seen wraps that have raster images at high resolution before.

Please help!

 

[myront]

We don't use templates here nor do we design in illustrator. CorelDraw allows designing at 1:1 scale. It wasn't until recently that illustrator finally jumped on board to allow designing at scale. We try to use the highest resolution raster elements available. Yes, sometimes when scaling an image the dpi drops in the 30 dpi range but we press on. Once the design is finalized we then export each "puzzle" piece as 150 dpi rgb using LZW Compression. The RIP program, Flexi, does it's magic and haven't had any complaints.

 

[design1111]

Thanks myront,


At your shop what would the file look like for a raster graphic when its sent to you? 1:1 scale @ >150 dpi?

 

[Solventinkjet]

"that's how the software works"

Translation: That's how the software was setup and he has no idea, or interest in, how to do it any different.

There is no RIP software that has such stringent requirements. I agree with myront. Working at 1:1 scale whenever possible is best practice. If you do have to work at scale, always upsample the effects accordingly. Most RIPs, if not all of them, see raster effects simply as a raster image. When they enlarge, DPI goes down. I bet if you had upsampled the effects to come out to closer to 150dpi once enlarged, the shop wouldn't have even noticed. It sounds like they take your file, put it in the RIP, enlarge by 2000% and hit print.

 

[ColorCrest]

I was concerned that the final outcome @ 30dpi would look horrendous.

Let's start here. What, exactly, makes you believe this?

 

[ColorCrest]

Well, come to find out he didn't scale the raster effects when he blew it up, so those were all at 30dpi and look horrible, so now I have a bus that has pixelated blurs everywhere

So far as these early posts are concerned, I understand when you write "dpi," you really mean "ppi." So, you believe "30ppi blurs look horrible." When you measure the pixelated blurs on the bus wrap, do the pixels actually measure close to 30 per inch? Or would 3-4 per inch be more accurate?

 

[design1111]

Let's start here. What, exactly, makes you believe this?

I've attached an example here with 300ppi vs 30ppi within 1in squares. That shouldn't ever be an acceptable resolution imo?

So far as these early posts are concerned, I understand when you write "dpi," you really mean "ppi." So, you believe "30ppi blurs look horrible." When you measure the pixelated blurs on the bus wrap, do the pixels actually measure close to 30 per inch? Or would 3-4 per inch be more accurate?

Yes, my mistake, I actually mean ppi. If I measure the print then yes all of the raster effects were printed at 30ppi. Picture attached

Translation: That's how the software was setup and he has no idea, or interest in, how to do it any different.

There is no RIP software that has such stringent requirements. I agree with myront. Working at 1:1 scale whenever possible is best practice. If you do have to work at scale, always upsample the effects accordingly. Most RIPs, if not all of them, see raster effects simply as a raster image. When they enlarge, DPI goes down. I bet if you had upsampled the effects to come out to closer to 150dpi once enlarged, the shop wouldn't have even noticed. It sounds like they take your file, put it in the RIP, enlarge by 2000% and hit print.

Thanks, I should have changed the resolution of the raster effects to 20000 or something before sending the file. It is good to hear that 1:1 scale is best practice, that if very helpful.


Thank you all for your help so far, I promise I am just trying to learn so that this doesn't happen again (at another shop)!!

 

[ColorCrest]

Picture attached

Your image file: "IMG_2970.jpg." You've not included a scale in the photo for reference.

 

[design1111]

Your image file: "IMG_2970.jpg." You've not included a scale in the photo for reference.

Here's one marked. The Large circles are about 1" dia

 

[jfiscus]

125 PPI for regular wraps, you can get away with 75 PPI sometimes on bus/trailer, but I prefer 100 PPI for those.
I always work/view at full scale prior to production, but some larger wholesalers just print and don't check for issues.

 

[bob]

No one in this conversation has actually stated this but it seems to be implied; using your RIP to upsize your images. If true, that is the worst possible way to do this. Use a spline-fit utility, like Photo Zoom et. al., to make your images full size at whatever resolution you need. Then and only then send them off to your RIP. If I'm mistaken then never mind.

 

[ColorCrest]

Here's one marked. The Large circles are about 1" dia

Apparently you only have a small photo of the actual print. No worries, and no doubt the circles are about 1" dia. However, very noticeable are circles which are far more "ragged" than others. So please tell, maybe a few more details such as design software and what, file type & elements, you actually supplied to the vendor.

 

[ColorCrest]

Cutting to the chase as it appears so far as shown, if the designer had saved the print file using "high resolution" as in Illustrator's Flatten Transparency settings, they would have done their job. If the print operator had checked all their options for the best quality, including the setting of the submitted file, they would have done their job. Ultimately, the print shop is less than expert at printing.

 

[design1111]

Apparently you only have a small photo of the actual print. No worries, and no doubt the circles are about 1" dia. However, very noticeable are circles which are for more "ragged" than others. So please tell, maybe a few more details such as design software and what, file type & elements, you actually supplied to the vendor.

Yes sorry I do not have access to this vehicle any more. The final accepted file was a 1/20th scale vector file in .eps. The file had two layers, the bottom was a template layer provided by the printer and the top was my graphics layer.

As you can see, the circles that look bad are only those that are effected by a feather or blur

 

[ColorCrest]

The final accepted file was a 1/20th scale vector file in .eps

Did the printer request .eps as the file type?

 

[design1111]

Yes exactly

 

[ColorCrest]

Yes exactly

I suppose you will learn before they do, EPS does not support transparency. Nor does it support color management, so there's that.

If you have Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop, you can always test and preview results at most practical sizes and resolutions you wish. Using Photoshop, open the native Illustrator file using the settings you're testing. The Photoshop dialog might say "Import PDF," which is what the Illustrator file really is, then set the resolution you're testing. The exercise is an actual RIP process much like the printer RIP process as far as resolution and color are concerned.

 

[design1111]

I suppose you will learn before they do, EPS does not support transparency. Nor does it support color management, so there's that.

If you have Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop, you can always test and preview results at most practical sizes and resolutions you wish. Using Photoshop, open the native Illustrator file using the settings you're testing. The Photoshop dialog might say "Import PDF," which is what the Illustrator file really is, then set the resolution you're testing. The exercise is an actual RIP process much like the printer RIP process as far as resolution and color are concerned.

I see very helpful, and I did not know that about EPS. What is the industry standard for sending files - pdf?

Thank you so much

 

[ColorCrest]

What is the industry standard for sending files - pdf?

Yup.

 

[design1111]

Yup.

Thank you - so I was not going crazy when I was confused that he didn't accept .pdf