How do I know if the colour is printing correctly if I am only given cmyk values?

[gabagoo]

This question has probably been asked many times, but I know that when I plug in cmyk values given for jobs, that the colours in a lot of cases could print a lot better if I knew the pantone colour and matched it myself off of the pantone charts we have charts we have.

So I ask this question more of why designers plug in cmyk values over a pantone colour so that we all sort of have an idea of what they are looking for in colour. I ask many clients if they can give me that info and I can tell it seems like a burden to them.... I just want to get it right the first time.

 

[Stephenedwardgraphic]

I have found that many designers don't even know what a Pantone color is Many send their files in RGB

We have our printers profiled to print to the G7 specification. That way if the customer complains about a color issue we can show/prove that we are printing to a known standard. In theory if they were to send those same files to any other print house that prints to G7 the prints should match. G7 helps to control your grays so that they print gray instead of printing to the red or blue side of the spectrum.

 

[2B]

the first thing is to get MANY color swatch books.

straight PMS
PMS to CMYK
PMS to RGB
RGB to CMYK


the reason that most designers send it in CMYK is that desktop printers printers (laser or inkjet) print in CMYK, most trade paper printers print CMYK do to the ease, price and convenience.

 

[oksigns]

This question has probably been asked many times, but I know that when I plug in cmyk values given for jobs, that the colours in a lot of cases could print a lot better if I knew the pantone colour and matched it myself off of the pantone charts we have charts we have.

So I ask this question more of why designers plug in cmyk values over a pantone colour so that we all sort of have an idea of what they are looking for in colour. I ask many clients if they can give me that info and I can tell it seems like a burden to them.... I just want to get it right the first time.

This is predominately taught in schools now- some schools better than others. There is a focus to use CMYK for print, but not so much emphasis on the use of color books for color matching. The nuances in color consistency and reproduction is still learned on the job as I see it, and is a good measure of how much experience the designer has under their belt.

There are barriers that prevent fledgling designers to know what road to take. It is common for people to mix RGB, Process, and Spot colors in documents, and then experience artifacts that confuse the process by the time their stuff prints.

 

[altereddezignz]

Since your talking about colors. Here is an issue i have.
Colors are
Pantone 072 coated - Blue
Pantone 123 coated - Yellow/gold

Using flexi or even cs6 and into flexi my blue is more purple and yellow is darker.
I am basing this off of a college print that i did a little while back before we had a printer in house.
I had one original print of the colors and sent it to be printed on a Roland printer as an outsource. I gave them the same this information.
Pantone 072 - CMYK - 100/79/0/0
Pantone 123 - CMYK - 0/24/91/0
What i received back was an exact match. This is the only color printer they use in house. He stated that they took the file and opened it. Confirmed the cmyk mix and sent it to print with my dims and re nested the job for cutout.

So any input to my colors being off when i print? I looked the pantone colors up and they are actually different than a college shows them to be. I have the email from the college stating the color and the mix in cmyk.

I have also had them look at the color setting under color correction in flexi. They show to be the same as mine.

 

[Stephenedwardgraphic]

@ altereddezignz

Are you printing with the same model printer and inks they have?

 

[altereddezignz]

@ altereddezignz

Are you printing with the same model printer and inks they have?

Granted they are not the same printer. Yet I have been trying all morning to get a match out of my printer and I can't even get close. To dark or to purple or way off. I am just trying to narrow down one color. I guess I assumed if the printer only saw a specific mix of cmyk then it would be in the close ball park yet I am very wrong lol.

 

[Stephenedwardgraphic]

I think you would be amazed at what profiling to G7 would do to your color match. Many of the good printer dealers have a G7 expert that you can hire for a day to come out and show you how to make a profile for your printer. It's not super hard to do. You need a measurement device like an iOne and some software called Curve 3 which helps you to build a profile -- and last but not least, a RIP that allows you to use those profiles.

Creating custom profiles is important because each different medial that you print to has a different white point and different ink holdouts that will make the color look different when you print to them.

 

[altereddezignz]

This may the end result is to hire someone to get this accomplished for us but at the moment we are trying to keep our budget down as we are still getting started so that may be out of the question a the moment. Here is a kicker. I can change between 3-4 different profiles and get no color variation at all. Heck i have even tried printing without a prifile with heats on and i get pretty close to the same color only the ink is to thick. Could my ink be drying to fast and not letting the color mix as well since i am having a grain type issue also unless i print in full quality 2 setting on 1440x1440 res?

 

[P Wagner]

This question has probably been asked many times, but I know that when I plug in cmyk values given for jobs, that the colours in a lot of cases could print a lot better if I knew the pantone colour and matched it myself off of the pantone charts we have charts we have.

So I ask this question more of why designers plug in cmyk values over a pantone colour so that we all sort of have an idea of what they are looking for in colour. I ask many clients if they can give me that info and I can tell it seems like a burden to them.... I just want to get it right the first time.

The short answer to the question posed in your title is: You Can't, because it doesn't exist, based on process color values alone (CMYK or RGB numbers). In fact, you're really asking the wrong question.

When someone provides a CMYK-based recipe only (C=x,M=x,Y=x,K=x), they are NEVER specifying ANY specific color. The same is true if they provide RGB values alone. I have attached two images of the EXACT SAME RGB values - R=166 G=21 B=49 for each. Note that they don't look the same. The reason is that the Embedded Working Space that are tied to each file are different. One is tagged as an Adobe 1998 RGB file, and the other is an sRGB RGB file.

It is also important to keep in mind that design applications like Photoshop Always have working spaces defined, and there is no way to disable color management in Photoshop. Those defaults in the Adobe design apps are found under their Edit Menu > Color Settings dialogs.

Without a valid Embedded Working Space, the values do not adequately describe or define any color. Changing Working Spaces in files changes the colors in the file. The workflow should be configured to minimize the occurrences of changing Working Spaces, and it should never do so without the user's knowledge.

 

[altereddezignz]

When someone provides a CMYK-based recipe only (C=x,M=x,Y=x,K=x), they are not specifying ANY specific color. The same is true if they provide RGB values alone. I have attached two images of the EXACT SAME RGB values - R=166 G=21 B=49 for each. Note that they don't look the same. The reason is that the Embedded Working Space that are tied to each file are different. One is tagged as an Adobe 1998 RGB file, and the other is an sRGB RGB file.

It is also important to keep in mind that design applications like Photoshop Always have working spaces defined, and there is no way to disable color management in Photoshop. Those defaults in the Adobe design apps are found under their Edit Menu > Color Settings dialogs.

But what if your given a CMYK mix and a Pantone color name? Would this not result int he same color bring a pantone name was given in the instruction?

 

[oksigns]

But what if your given a CMYK mix and a Pantone color name? Would this not result int he same color bring a pantone name was given in the instruction?

wont work because it is fundamentally a process color sprayed as dots or screens and not a SPOT color that is usually printed in a single run. They are two different processes. The thing is, a spot color is "intelligently" converted by RIP software to an equivalent color as long as the profile works on the media you're using. This conversion accounts for the printers gamut, ink, dot size and pattern and not just finding an equivilant CMYK value.

 

[altereddezignz]

wont work because it is fundamentally a process color sprayed as dots or screens and not a SPOT color that is usually printed in a single run. They are two different processes. The thing is, a spot color is "intelligently" converted by RIP software to an equivalent color as long as the profile works on the media you're using. This conversion accounts for the printers gamut, ink, dot size and pattern and not just finding an equivilant CMYK value.

ah hah. So maybe this is the reason for my grain? the rip process.