How do you price vinyl?

[TyrantDesigner]

Man! This thread is still going? Dude, getting defensive when people have to reiterate the same stuff post after post is a lot like getting mad because people tell you your logo sucks when it's posted up. Man up, Suck it up and seriously ... it's small jobs that kill your profit margin, after you end up designing out, laying out and help them find the right colors you're almost always going to end up at 20 minutes minimum waiting on the customer to make their mind up. let alone then your small stuff will STILL take the same amount of time to weed as something 3 times that size just because you're having to concentrate on not weeding small stuff away. just charge a minimum. you've already been given at least 4 ways to calculate out what it actually costs you ... but if you still want to know how it's done since apperently this is WAY overly complex http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+do+i+price+vinyl+graphics

Oh, and the golden rule doesn't apply on forums where you ask what was asked multiple times each month and for some reason everyone asking it doesn't spend 5 minutes to read through old forum posts only 1-3 pages back.

 

[JKADesigns]

Do a few for friends and family. Figure out your time. Have a friend with a CriF**Kcut that could NOT do .65" letters on her machine. She wanted me to do about 6" x 12" of vinyl. If I would have had to weed that entire thing and install myself, it would have been $100 easy. It was spice labels for a pampered chef lady. Did it for her for $15 because all I had to do was set up my equipment and cut her vinyl. Until you do jobs like that, and see how long they really take you, I don't care if you're new, charge what it takes you when you're new and keep the money later.

Like everyone else is telling you, the cost of your vinyl is IRREVELANT. you are a SALESMAN, not a Signmaker. You hire employees or sub to make your signs. If you are stuck in the shop all day long making $10 signs you're out of your mind. I can afford to throw together a wall art on the computer and have it out the door in 20 minutes for $25, but I can't afford to make a yard sign when I can sub it out for $15, unless it's one color, the customer wants less than 5, and they want them tomorrow.

Find those jobs where $1 of vinyl is worth $100 designed and applied and you will be a rich man.

 

[rydods]

Ever think about purchasing an Estimating program. I use Estimate and the basic version would help a ton for smaller jobs like this. Everyone has their formulas but why the hassle. Punch in the numbers to get your shop rate and youre set.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Man! This thread is still going? Dude, getting defensive....

I think he's past that defensive point and actually figuring it out. He's gonna be okay.

Of course according to SalmonEgg apparently I'm the one screwed up here. :Big Laugh

 

[Justin]

I think he's past that defensive point and actually figuring it out. He's gonna be okay.

Of course according to SalmonEgg apparently I'm the one screwed up here. :Big Laugh

Yeah I am figuring it out.. I totally get what you guys are all saying about the shop minimum, etc.. I really am thinking Ida good niche to get into, and try to sway from the yard signs so much.. I'd ideally like to get more into stickers in some specialized manner. Unless they feel great about the shop minimum

 

[Circleville Signs]

I understand the people around here get tired of answering some of the same questions, and seeing the same threads, but honestly that really is the nature of forums especially one where you'd think newbies learning would be to learn the basics+advanced skills. I don't know how many forums or online communities you all have been on but it seems like this type of attitude occurs everywhere when it's the same "old timers" responding to the threads whether it's trucks, signs, programming, or what have you.

It really isn't the same questions being asked over and over that is an issue. What chaps my a$$, and what does the same to many others here, is that people come into this business with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE OR BUSINESS KNOWLEDGE and think that there is just money laying around on the ground to be picked up. THEN, their expectation is that not only will others take time out of their day to answer questions that should NEVER have to be asked if you have already made the decision to open your doors, but then these newbies get all butt-hurt when someone is honest about the situation.

This happened with you and I already once, in regards to design and design skills. I tried to be helpful there, you got pissy and tried to act like you were above learning anything from anyone. Then you post this and catch me in the middle of a rough week already? Yeah - not gonna get a great response.

it isn't about attitude my man - it's about seeing an industry that I love and am passionate about being infested by hacks and people with ZERO business sense, who expect that everyone should willingly give away knowledge that has taken years to acquire simply because you want them to.

THAT is what causes the issue. You want to really learn this business? You want to do yourself a MASSIVE favor that will in the long run make your business 10x more succesful than it has any chance of being right now? Close your doors for at least 6 months. Go apprentice, or just sweep the floors and be a vinyl monkey at a real sign shop. Work for minimum wage if you have to. And for the sake of all that is holy, LEARN WHILE YOU ARE THERE.

Then go open your shop.

 

[royster13]

You want to really learn this business? You want to do yourself a MASSIVE favor that will in the long run make your business 10x more succesful than it has any chance of being right now? Close your doors for at least 6 months. Go apprentice, or just sweep the floors and be a vinyl monkey at a real sign shop. Work for minimum wage if you have to. And for the sake of all that is holy, LEARN WHILE YOU ARE THERE.

Then go open your shop.

Easier said than done......Most of the "pros" here would not give these folks the time of day (much like the reception they get on Signs101)....So to expect that they can get a job to learn about signs is not very realistic....

 

[Circleville Signs]

Easier said than done......Most of the "pros" here would not give these folks the time of day (much like the reception they get on Signs101)....So to expect that they can get a job to learn about signs is not very realistic....

I would say that is absolutely false. For example, I'm not in a position to hire someone full time at this point, however if someone wanted to apprentice, or even just pick up minimum wage work for 10-15 hours/week, I would love to have someone with the ability needed to work in this business. I know lots of other shop owners here feel the same way.

 

[royster13]

I would love to have someone with the ability needed to work in this business.

There is the problem.....If they had this ability they would not be here looking for help.....They would scour the archives and learn on their own....

 

[Circleville Signs]

There is the problem.....If they had this ability they would not be here looking for help.....They would scour the archives and learn on their own....

When I say "ability" I don't mean that they already know how to do things. I mean the following:

1. Can they cut a straight line if you hand them an exacto and a straight edge?

2. Do they have the hand-eye coordination to pull transfer tape, and can they learn to properly hand-rub it within a few tries?

3. DO THEY REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE LOTS TO LEARN?

4. Can they pick up the basics after being shown a couple or three times?

5. DO THEY REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE LOTS TO LEARN?

 

[Gino]

I think Circle..... that's a very good assessment of what takes place in any field of business.

It takes years to form an industry and many more years to train and upkeep the integrity of said industry.

It only takes a few simple years with simple-minded people to totally destroy what everyone else has worked their butts off maintaining.

I have no problem with anyone coming into this trade and asking questions. I particularly like the questions when one asks about color balance.... or what type styles work with certain words, how does perspective work or does this style make me look fat.

For instance, when someone comes here and introduces themselves and in the same breath says they've got problems and they are of a super basic nature, it kinda says to the professionals.... what da fug am I doin' ?? but for both sides of the fence.

What is someone doing in a field where they can... for very little money be in competition with a real business. How many carpenters do you know that say they can build a house and then go look for answers on the internet ?? I mean really, would you buy a house from a guy that had no idea about what he just did ?? Would you take your car to the guy that says he does window tinting and because he has a garage and a wrench, you'll let him rebuild your motor ?? The last time you were at the dentist, did you bother to find out where he learned how to pull teeth or do a root canal, or just because he has a chair and some fancy sharp tools, you'll trust him and not bother with his lack of credentials ??

It's all about coming in and learning, but who wants a learn as you go on the job kinda sign guy ??

If someone came to the 8th grade with a 1st grade level of knowledge.... would you waste your time teaching an unteachable kid, just because he wants you to ?? Yeah, I can see it now..... you're gonna do long division and use script handwriting while he can barely count to 100, let alone add/subtract, multiply, divide and some easy algebra equations. Yeah, then when you ask him to read a book he doesn't even know how to sound out words, let alone read at that level.

So, all of you that want to skip the learning process and jump feet first into the divey well without learning to swim.... be my guest, but get ready for some rude awakenings and strong criticisms, cause you don't really belong here.

Sure, this is a place to learn, trade secrets, do business and have fun.... but it's a forum or community of sign people...... and for those trying to side step using their local sign shop and start your own in-house [and I use that term loosely] I could care less if you ever learn a thing, just because we talk on a level you can't comprehend. So for those, who think the old-timers are mean, grumpy and know-it-alls.... you got it right..... we are exactly that.

 

[tsgstl]

I agree with learning the business first.
If not you are going to either buy into a franchise and pay someone 20% and meek out a very small income. Or you will have to hire more than you need with the same results.
This guy sounds like he is in small town America. Two signs shops? I have 150+ to deal with. Might be hard to apprentice for a guy who is going to be 50% of you competition when you open your doors. Not sure I'd be down with that move. I think his business model will need to vary drastically from the majority of us. Find out what complaints most have with your competition and do the opposite. Ask everyone you know to give you a chance with anything you can provide them. Look around and see what you can do that you see a lot of and get that business. There is most likely some type of plant or foundry or two that everyone in town works at, try and get a connection.

I wouldn't worry about a "niche" in your market. Just do everything you possibly can that walks in your door.

 

[Awards+]

Base your pricing on what you local market will allow.

 

[Circleville Signs]

Base your pricing on what you local market will allow.

Sounds like the local market requires a sharpie and cardboard in order to make a decent living. $15 for a one off 18x24 yard sign? $10 for the same at a different shop?

lol.

 

[Justin]

I really appericiate what you all have posted here on this thread, and elsewhere on the forum.

I'm new to the sign business, but not new to the idea of business, and what it entails. I know alot of you feel the way you do because of the big outburst in the past 10 years of "pro" home designers, and with the internet. The internet hasn't only killed the graphic design, and sign industry, but tons of industries. I'm sure I didn't need to tell you all that. I'm not some shop down on main st so I don't have as much to worry about yet. I'm just basically working out of my home, or rather as a branch of my fathers business.(copiers, fax machines, typewriters, printers(everything but wide-format), cash registers, etc..)

I did work for a sign shop, but it wasn't a shop in the sense of some of the bigger guys here. The guy I worked for had a vinyl cutter but outsourced everything else except welding some metal together, and doing some neons.

I'm just trying to make it guys. I know I won't be the next corporate conglomerate. I would like to be say 500k/yr to 1mill/yr business, and have a salary around 50-60k. I may sometime just up, and see the sign business isn't for me. I really am searching for that ultimate thing I love to do. The sign business really came to me because I LOVE working on computers.(not really programming, but just really enjoy the computer) Also, it's just fun designing(although I do need more practice in more professional skills), printing, and cutting.. It's just a fun industry.

Thanks again for your replies, and information. You haven't ran me away, and I definitely don't know too much to not want to learn more everyday when I login here.

 

[Justin]

Sounds like the local market requires a sharpie and cardboard in order to make a decent living. $15 for a one off 18x24 yard sign? $10 for the same at a different shop?

lol.

Come on now you are just about an hour away from me. You probably have some idea what it's like down south from you. I know Circleville is quiet abit bigger than my area, and definitely has more people flowing through it especially if you tap into Chillicothe, South Bloomfield and Columbus. I'm damn near across the river from Portsmouth.

This guy sounds like he is in small town America.

I definitely am. I mean were not podunk small, but it is a hard area around here. Heck look it up yourself, Portsmouth, OH.

 

[Awards+]

Sounds like the local market requires a sharpie and cardboard in order to make a decent living. $15 for a one off 18x24 yard sign? $10 for the same at a different shop?

lol.

Yeah thats nuts, I'm at $35 and I think that's really cheap.

 

[Circleville Signs]

Come on now you are just about an hour away from me. You probably have some idea what it's like down south from you. I know Circleville is quiet abit bigger than my area, and definitely has more people flowing through it especially if you tap into Chillicothe, South Bloomfield and Columbus. I'm damn near across the river from Portsmouth.



I definitely am. I mean were not podunk small, but it is a hard area around here. Heck look it up yourself, Portsmouth, OH.

Come up and say hi - you can even stay for a few days if you want

I know that the southern part of ohio and norther KY is pretty depressed. But let me give you an example. One of my wholesale clients is in Waverly. Yes - Waverly. There isn't a much more depressed (or depressing) town in America! He is a broker. Doesn't produce a damn thing in house. He's got a tiny little office/shop on the corner of Main St.

He does $350k+/year.

The point here is that it doesn't MATTER what your competition charges. AT ALL. There's one caveat to that though. You have to be really good at what you do in order to be at that point. Someone else posted to this thread earlier along the same lines. Your competition is charging $15 for a one-off yard sign? I wouldn't touch that for less than $35 PLUS design time. And I get it - all day long.

But you HAVE to have a market niche - something that you do better than ANYONE ELSE AROUND YOU.

My shop is known in Pickaway/Ross/Faifield/Fayette county as the place to go if you care about design. Am I the greatest designer in the world? Not by a long shot. But I AM a long shot better than anyone else around here.

Find what you do better than anyone else. Do it at a high level. Refine your process. Charge a premium for it. Make money.

 

[Justin]

But you HAVE to have a market niche - something that you do better than ANYONE ELSE AROUND YOU.

Find what you do better than anyone else. Do it at a high level. Refine your process. Charge a premium for it. Make money.

I really think thats what I need to focus on. I hear the niche thing about everything from websites to selling ink pens.

Any of you have any good ideas on how to find a good niche? or ideas of various niches?

 

[royster13]

He does $350k+/year.

That is because he gets out and knocks on doors.....