TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
Crap dude, I charged $60 the other day for an 18x24 one color coroplast. Lowest I went in the past 3 years was $45 each when someone bought 20 sponsor signs that had to all be different names.
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How do you price vinyl?
- Thread starter Justin
- Start date
Crap dude, I charged $60 the other day for an 18x24 one color coroplast. Lowest I went in the past 3 years was $45 each when someone bought 20 sponsor signs that had to all be different names.
Locals Find!
New Member
You got a niche and your not even using it. Your Father is in all sorts of small businesses servicing machines. You said yourself your a bit of an offshoot of that business. Start selling products those businesses need to them at decent prices. You father has already done 75% of the work establishing the relationship. Get in there and find out what they need. Then provide it. Don't worry about the lowballers in your area. You already got your foot in the door tell them you would be happy to service there print and sign needs too. Charge Accordingly. Most people won't question a price if they trust you and you don't try to screw them on price but price fairly.
If you need some help. Send me a plane ticket and put me up for a week and I will train you how to take advantage of that situation to its fullest, No Charge. I could use a week away from Florida, too many damn tourists here right now.
I can't stand it................. can anyone spell it out for me ?? 
Pat Whatley
New Member
Okay, I'm starting a collection now to buy Addie a plane ticket to go hang out with Gino for a week.
You can outsource 18x24 CMYK yard signs and get ten for $40 wholesale plus shipping, sell for $70. Client gets ten for the price of two, you made the same profit (probably more depending on material margins and how you produce signs) and did almost no work. If you can sell one sign at $35 you can sell ten at $70. Or ten at $100, whatever.
I'm just stirring the pot, but flatbed outsourcing needs to be seriously considered these days.
Circleville Signs
New Member
Circleville Signs
New Member
You can outsource 18x24 CMYK yard signs and get ten for $40 wholesale plus shipping, sell for $70. Client gets ten for the price of two, you made the same profit (probably more depending on material margins and how you produce signs) and did almost no work. If you can sell one sign at $35 you can sell ten at $70.
I'm just saying.
Why in the world would you do that? And why, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, are you posting this info in the open forums?
Locals Find!
New Member
You have got to be joking right?? Your not seriously encouraging lowballing are you??
LOL run for the trees commonly accessible information is being posted again from sources found through easy searches here and on google and mixed with basic business markup!
Sorry but obfuscation isn't a business model and I find yard signs at $35 to be ridiculous. That said if you can get that price, awesome, clearly the audience buying from you isn't using the internet for pricing anyway OR your product is that much higher quality. The later is what I strive for, so I've never really been afraid of lowballers. For the millionth time I'll say "velvet rope theory". Addie, I really don't consider that lowballing btw, at that price point we'd be in competition with other local flatbed competitors at market pricing. You guys are talking like the entire world is still roll to roll with a million extra labor steps required in the pricing model. All I'm suggesting is offering a price which makes you just as much money and the customer that much more satisfied with your service.
Anyway, lunch time, resume panty bunching.
Sorry but obfuscation isn't a business model and I find yard signs at $35 to be ridiculous. That said if you can get that price, awesome, clearly the audience buying from you isn't using the internet for pricing anyway OR your product is that much higher quality. The later is what I strive for, so I've never really been afraid of lowballers. For the millionth time I'll say "velvet rope theory". Addie, I really don't consider that lowballing btw, at that price point we'd be in competition with other local flatbed competitors at market pricing. You guys are talking like the entire world is still roll to roll with a million extra labor steps required in the pricing model. All I'm suggesting is offering a price which makes you just as much money and the customer that much more satisfied with your service.
Anyway, lunch time, resume panty bunching.
HulkSmash
New Member
that's dumb. Why would i wake up at 5am, come to work, and bill someone for 35 dollars. God... what an awful idea. If i don't make money on it, I don't do it. Simple.
Circleville Signs
New Member
Whether it's flatbed outsourced or not isn't the issue. The issue is that I still have to lay out the sign, set up the file, send it off, etc. That costs $$. My first price break is at 10 pieces. You get a 10% break.
Why would someone invest in a piece of equipment for $100k+ with the idea that they should just sell the stuff they make cheaper?
Why would someone invest in a piece of equipment for $100k+ with the idea that they should just sell the stuff they make cheaper?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
We all do business in our own little unique fashion. If someone wants to sell a yard sign for $65 and get it.... vs someone at $35 and still satisfied with it.... good for them. The guy going in at $10 each... good for him, too. I don't care how they float their boat.... as long as it floats and doesn't enter my waters. However, if they did, I could blow their doors in if I wanted to. Most of our competition nowadays knows to stay away from us. We can take a hit if we want to... just to prove a point. We've earned that right to do so. If I know someone is badmouthing us or telling people we aren't capable.... I'll do it for next to free and still make money, just to shut their pie-holes.
Why on earth would I want to sell 65 signs for $650 when I can easily get that for only 10 signs ?? I mean really.... do the math. You are actually telling me... flatbed, roll to roll or hand painting these signs.... you want to do 65 to my 10... to yield the same gross ?? C'mon.... give me a break. No one thinks like that. Well, at least no one with half a brain.
Making money is the name of the game and I'm/we're all about making money and as much as we can and putting it in the bank. Sure, we'll do a couple of yard signs for free or a set of magnetics, but we're probably looking at a $5,000 or $10,000 order. We don't do it on purpose for a crappy little order of $70 or $700.
Having a flatbed and purposely not making what the market is willing to pay to upset the apple cart is just pure stoopidness. Proving a point as to how cheap you can produce with a flatbed is pure stoopidness.
I've considered much of what you say as good advice, but this is hardly worth repeating, let alone storing in one's memory banks.
Let's take some pencils down to the corner and sell them for 2¢ a piece by lunchtime... and take home 20¢ or let's take 4 pens to the guy in that office over there and sell them all to him for $4.50 and be done before 9am.
Why on earth would I want to sell 65 signs for $650 when I can easily get that for only 10 signs ?? I mean really.... do the math. You are actually telling me... flatbed, roll to roll or hand painting these signs.... you want to do 65 to my 10... to yield the same gross ?? C'mon.... give me a break. No one thinks like that. Well, at least no one with half a brain.
Making money is the name of the game and I'm/we're all about making money and as much as we can and putting it in the bank. Sure, we'll do a couple of yard signs for free or a set of magnetics, but we're probably looking at a $5,000 or $10,000 order. We don't do it on purpose for a crappy little order of $70 or $700.
Having a flatbed and purposely not making what the market is willing to pay to upset the apple cart is just pure stoopidness. Proving a point as to how cheap you can produce with a flatbed is pure stoopidness.
I've considered much of what you say as good advice, but this is hardly worth repeating, let alone storing in one's memory banks.
Let's take some pencils down to the corner and sell them for 2¢ a piece by lunchtime... and take home 20¢ or let's take 4 pens to the guy in that office over there and sell them all to him for $4.50 and be done before 9am.
Are you guys not following the part where you're making as much or more profit for less work? Same design setup, etc. but no table time, less material cost, etc. Read it again: you could be getting the same or more profit on the table for less work.
Gino, your points are all valid and I'd point you to the part where I said if that's what your market supports, great, charge that. Or look over my post history where I repeatedly say charge what the market can bear. We're roll to roll only, and when we price at roll to roll for one offs we're in the same neighborhood. I'll say that once we started outsourcing to flatbed producers we saw growth in our yard sign vertical that far exceeded the pricing difference and the margins were as good or better--and we had a larger share of the market mind space. The only time that calc changes in favor of roll to roll is on rush jobs. You can get a higher market value from those customers anyway which makes the added work and material costs worth it.
Lots of kneejerking up in here over a loose example of a way to turn the same or more profit for less work while providing more value to your customer. Not to mention the tangential benefits of having more of your product in the world without a downside, especially if you use bugs on your yard signs.
Look at it like Jay Abraham: concentrate on providing value to everyone around you and money will follow. Look for the win/win.
Gino, your points are all valid and I'd point you to the part where I said if that's what your market supports, great, charge that. Or look over my post history where I repeatedly say charge what the market can bear. We're roll to roll only, and when we price at roll to roll for one offs we're in the same neighborhood. I'll say that once we started outsourcing to flatbed producers we saw growth in our yard sign vertical that far exceeded the pricing difference and the margins were as good or better--and we had a larger share of the market mind space. The only time that calc changes in favor of roll to roll is on rush jobs. You can get a higher market value from those customers anyway which makes the added work and material costs worth it.
Lots of kneejerking up in here over a loose example of a way to turn the same or more profit for less work while providing more value to your customer. Not to mention the tangential benefits of having more of your product in the world without a downside, especially if you use bugs on your yard signs.
Look at it like Jay Abraham: concentrate on providing value to everyone around you and money will follow. Look for the win/win.
I have been taking advantage of this.. I've made some signs for myself to advertise(1 I just had to take down due to the damn wind), and spent probably 2-3 bucks total for it.(I got the coro free). I'm getting the business cards done(my father), and going to be sending out some flyers too.
I still don't know how the local guys do it.. If you guys are getting $35+ for 1 yard sign(1 color right?), and they only want $10.00 to $15.00 here that's crazy.
Locals Find!
New Member
How do you make any money with a $30 profit margin?? I just don't get it. I don't see it. A special limited time sale is one thing. Actually pricing them out at that all the time is something else. I know what your suggesting doesn't work long term as I did exactly what you were suggesting my first 6 months in business. When my bank account was empty and the power got turned off for non payment was my wake up call that it just doesn't work. Then I got smart and started charging more and now I have money in my bank and my power stays on.
Circleville Signs
New Member
You're right - it IS crazy. My guess is that they make REALLY $hitty signs. Ugly, 1 color, cut vinyl crap.
It was a response to a $35 one off...profit on that is also probably around $30, likely less if you don't have scrap coro that size around and you had to design something. The profit margin isn't the same as profit by the way. Again, charge what your market can bear, I'm merely saying there are other ways of getting your same margins and making your customers happier while getting a larger marketing footprint.
This is the EXACT same thing everyone on the forums says when we discuss how to test if your market can support new equipement. Outsource it, find the market price, see if the numbers can handle the expense. The only difference is the context of the conversation.
I don't know, maybe my area is more competitive, Wisconsin has always been swimming with printers as it's an industrial economy with a huge share of the paper manufacturing market. I like to push the market I'm in while making a quality product and over delivering to customers on product and promises.
Maybe to change tact, have you ever bought a larger sized soda when you intended not to, because it was ONLY a tiny bit more? Same technique. That soda vendor sure profited from providing you with more product at slightly thinned margins. Again if you can sell one at $35 you can sell 10 at $100 or 10 at $140 or whatever your market dictates. The client will see and bite on the "value" and you end up with thicker pockets with lower time and cost investments.]
Anyway I think I've restated this as much as I can for the day.
royster13
New Member
I do not think a full line high overhead sign shop should be doing too many 1 off yard signs.....The client needs to find a vendor appropriate for the job at hand......
When I need an oil change I head to Walmart for the 24.95 special not to GM Goodwrench for a 90.00 job.....I do not need GM Goodrwrench for that particular job....
Same with signs...Sometimes the client needs a lesser shop to do a lesser sign...The "big boys" would stick to "big boy" jobs and leave the little stuff alone.....
When I need an oil change I head to Walmart for the 24.95 special not to GM Goodwrench for a 90.00 job.....I do not need GM Goodrwrench for that particular job....
Same with signs...Sometimes the client needs a lesser shop to do a lesser sign...The "big boys" would stick to "big boy" jobs and leave the little stuff alone.....
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
Seriously, by the time you order that ten signs and sell them for 30 dollars profit ... then wait for them to be made and sent to you ... then deal with the pickup.. we all know how much an 18x24 coroplast blank costs and how much a foot and a half of HP vinyl costs ... I've just beat your profit margin like a it was a seal in my clubbing range. an 18x24 coroplast should be designed in 10-15 minutes max with the only time addition being color choice of cut vinyl. add to that 20 minutes to cut weed mask and apply ... sorry, your model for outsourcing for a couple pennies on the dollar is flawed. but hey, if you're happy with beer money ... enjoy ... you want steak money ... you know you can do better.